color space and color grading

[Walter Soyka]

AE’s color management brings in images and movies, converts them from their native color profiles into the working space, then optionally converts from the working space to an output profile for previews (using your monitor profile) and renders (using the output profile specified in the item’s output module).

Delivering for HD, your output space for render ought to be Rec. 709. Since AE defaults to using the working space as the output profile, you may as well set the working space to Rec. 709.

When you set the working space to none, you are turning off color management in AE.

Technically, it doesn’t matter which other working space you choose, so long as the space is large enough to handle the gamut of the output space without clipping, or so long as you’re using 32bpc, if you remember to also correctly set the output profile in the render queue item’s output module’s color management settings.

In practice, with a single deliverable format, just use its native color profile as your working space (Rec. 709 for HD, in this case) to avoid this added complexity.

QuickTime Player is only quasi-color managed, so unfortunately you cannot expect consistent results with it. AE is fully color managed, so using it with a well-profiled monitor should give good and consistent results.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Enginn Heima]

Thank you Walter for your thorough answer.

I have one more question for you, and it’s regarding the rec709 profile. When I switch to rec709 from “none” my RAM previews won’t play back as they should. They stutter, so to speak, and don’t pick up speed whereas with my color profile set to “none” I don’t have this problem. Do you have an idea what could be causing this?

Regards.

[Walter Soyka]

Color management requires additional processing during RAM preview, because Ae must transform from the working space to the display’s profile for preview, although many computers can do this in real time.

You can adjust the quality (and speed) of this transform in Preferences > Previews > Viewer Quality > Color Management Quality. There’s an option called “More Accurate Except RAM Preview” that will give you high quality transforms while working in the comp window and better performance for RAM preview.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Enginn Heima]

Thanks again!

It´s a shame, the option “More Accurate Except RAM Preview” was already enabled. I guess 8gb RAM just isn´t enough for that matter.

Regards.

[Walter Soyka]

Are you using the Digital Cinema Desktop preview? If so, try unchecking Preferences > Video Preview > Mirror on Computer Monitor.

Alternately, tear the comp viewer panel off and drag it to the second monitor. Press Cmd- to make it full-screen. You’ll lose a bit of real-estate to window chrome, but it might run RAM preview better.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Enginn Heima]

Thanks again Walter.

But I’m still having my RAM problems. Doesn’t hurt that much though.

Another thing, I’m noticing slight gamma shift between ColorFinesse and AE while I’m using the REC.709 color space whereas when I have it set to none there is absolutely no shift between the two.

Might it be that the ColorFinesse isn’t using the REC.709 color space?

[Walter Soyka]

[Enginn Heima] “Another thing, I’m noticing slight gamma shift between ColorFinesse and AE while I’m using the REC.709 color space whereas when I have it set to none there is absolutely no shift between the two.”

Yes — ironically, Color Finesse is not color-managed. However, we can correct the gamma with a LUT. Get LUT Buddy [link] and apply it to a solid. Set it to Draw Pattern. Add a Color Profile Converter effect above LUT Buddy and convert from the working space (Rec. 709) to the display’s profile. Add another LUT Buddy above both the converter and the first LUT Buddy and set it to Read Pattern. Finally, click options, set the LUT type to 1D, and Export LUT as an Autodesk LUT (I think). Back in ColorFinesse, View > Primary Preview LUT > Other… and select the file you just wrote out.

(This is somewhat off the cuff, so please report back if it doesn’t work properly.)

Alternately, skip the full UI and use the simplified UI, which will show you the color-managed comp window instead of the non-color-managed Synthetic Aperture app window.

Personally, for grading within AE, I prefer Colorista II which uses the standard AE interface and doesn’t have this issue, but it doens’t offer the same toolset as CF.

That said, grading outside of AE is even better, as you can use a purpose-built tool. Resolve Lite is free, but you need BMD hardware and a broadcast monitor to really benefit.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Enginn Heima]

Thank you once again Walter.

[Sanjin Švajger]

Hi! Old thread I know…:) But I’m kinda at exactly the same point that the OP was 5 months ago.
I have the same monitor and am also going to grade a show for TV with AE (CS6). But unlike the OP my monitor needs another calibration. So my question goes: how do I calibrate my monitor? I’ll be using a similiar device as the OP. Do I calibrate to an sRGB colour space and gamma or do I calibrate to an REC709 (if this will be possible..). THX!

[Walter Soyka]

[Sanjin Švajger] “So my question goes: how do I calibrate my monitor? I’ll be using a similiar device as the OP. Do I calibrate to an sRGB colour space and gamma or do I calibrate to an REC709 (if this will be possible..). THX!”

With Ae, you don’t aim to calibrate your monitor to match a specific standard. You profile your monitor — that is, measure its output from specific color signal inputs — so that color-managed software knows how the monitor responds. The color management system will then translate colors from the working space in Ae to the display space of your specific monitor for accurate display (subject to the limitations of your monitor itself and the device used to build the profile).

I use and recommend the i1 Display Pro.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events