color correcting 2048 x 1536 cineon files in AE?

[Barend Onneweer]

It’s been done, but the big complication comes with calibrating and testing.

If you’re aiming for transfer back to film, you’ll need get some test frames printed from the sequence, and calibrate the monitors to the resulting film prints, otherwise there’s no way you know what you’re doing is going to look like in the theatre.

You can also use a LUT (Look up table) in After Effects, by applying a custom Curves effect to mimic the final result of the film transfer (by comparing the result to the printed frames). Use the LUT layer as a ‘guide’ during the color treatment, and then take it off before sending the files to the transfer house.

Another tool for calibrating and matching is: Truelight. A combo of hard- and software.
https://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/truelight.html

Bar3nd

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[Devin Uzan]

Barend is correct. You need to know how your monitor and film output match. Output a series of “wedge” frames using different brightnesses/rgb values. Also get the Kodak LAD girl and Marcie to color correct your monitor in the meantime to what she looks like on film.

As for a LUT you can create an adjustment/guide layer with the default Cineon converter-although the default is not always accurate particularly with different film stocks and output methods. Most houses create their own LUT’s depending on their pipeline but the default one can bring you into the ballpark of linear space. Turn this off when rendering.

Cineons are used all the time in AE.

cheers

[Jim Dodson]

I did exactly that (color correcting in AE) on a short I directed called “David Mamet’s Gilded Stones”

We shot 35mm; scanned to cineon files — brought them in to After Effects where I made the layer 3D — and then I added lights (spot) to create pools of light within the frame — (also an “Ambient” light as a fill light) also changed the color of the lights to color the scene — (we really warmed it up with amber spots and light amber ambient light) Then I motion tracked the spot lights as the shots involved a moving camera.

Then we recorded the 2k rez files back out to 35mm — Presto! A poorman’s Digital Intermediate. The actor was now walking in and out of these pools of light that we had created — it was a great cheat!!

The results were remarkably successful. The film played at Sundance; HBO/Aspen and AFI film fest… it was good fun…

As I was working with the Cineon files I simply added the “Cineon Converter” effect (under “channel”) which I turned on for previewing my color-balancing work then turned it off when I rendered out.

If you are looking for exacting results and want precisely the same colors that you saw on your $5,000 monitor, then yes I suppose LUT’s are in order — but I was just using an NTSC monitor and just more or less winged it and the colors came over to 35mm pretty much just like I wanted them to… I was shocked (as I had never done it before) — and BOY! Those 2k rez files are big and beautifully detailed!

Pointer: when you want to render out a test of your work — use the “streth” setting in the Output module of the render window to make a scaled down version (like 25%) as a preview copy of your work.

Good luck…

[Peter O’connell]

Hi Jeremiah, my advice would be to use the elin plugin from the orphanage.
Good luck
Pete

[Jeremiah Black]

Thanks for everyone for posting, and helping me out.

I usually color HD or SD files, but for this 16mm short, I thought I’d try 2K cineon files in After Effects. Obviously, I’ve never done it before, but it seems like a lot of fun- provided I don’t screw it up. I supose I could just transfer the 16mm to D5, but this seems like more fun (plus I don’t have a D5 deck and renting one won’t be any cheaper than paying for 2K scans).

Obviously the 2K DI is for a 35mm print, but can anyone give me any advice on also making an SD master for television from the same 2K timeline in AE? I’m a little concerned given that the 2K file is 4:3 (2048 x 1536) and broadcast is 3:2 (720 x 480). And I’m also a little confused on how I can color correct for both from the same timeline. I guess I could color for broadcast and then make an adjustment layer based on a custom LUT, and leave it off for my render out to broadcast (digibeta master) and then turn it on for the render to cineon for the 35mm print. I’ll just have my NTSC monitor to grade on, so a few test frames will be in order. I know I don’t have all the ideal equipment to do this, but I just can’t help but try anyway.

Thanks again, everyone! I’m sure I’ll be posting more questions and results as the time draw nearer.

– jeremiah black

[Jeremiah Black]

Well, I found and downloaded Marcie, but I don’t know who the Kodak LAD girl is. Can you explain?

[Jeremiah Black]

Pete,

Yeah, I downloaded a copy of elin yesterday, but am unsure on it’s use. Does this replace AE’s built in “cineon convertor” with a higher quality version? Is it similar to the cineon convertor, in that IO would apply it during coloring, and then turn it off for my render? Or is Elin not used for going back to cineon, and just used for rendering to a liner space? Since it’s Stu from The Orphanage, I trust that the product is great and kicks major butt; I’m just unsure of it’s specific applications.

Perhaps if you’ve used elin before, you can share a bit of your experience.

thanks,

– jeremiah black

[Devin Uzan]

Marcie is fine. No need for a LAD girl if you have her. They picked a pale white women with very subtle tones to immediately make it apparent if you are off in color terms.

As for elin. I would try not to complicate matters. It is better for float space emulation–helpful with realistic CG renders. It probably is not needed for now.

Color correct everything for film and then do a video version afterwards. Be sure to judge color and whites/blacks on a calibrated video monitor. Final Cut Pro is good for this but you can also do it in AE. Video has different black and white points and saturation limits.

While 2048×1556 (more common) is 4:3 this is the full frame. This full frame is never seen projected. The most common aspect ratio is 1:1.85, 1:2.35 and 1:1.78 (HD). You probably can find mattes for this just for framing. Don’t render hard matted. You are welcome to hardmatte for TV for that more filmic look. This is something you can decide later when you do a video version.

In many formats the soundtrack area of the film takes out part of the left section of the frame. So make sure your output house knows what your intentions are or else something might get clipped that should be in frame. Try to find some guides to download or your output house should have some.

“Full Aperture” generally means the left side will be soundtrack area while “Academy Aperture” does not include this. It is a little confusing but ask your output house. So if you give them files and say these are “Academy Aperture” they will offset your files to take into consideration the soundtrack area.

hope this helps!

good luck

[Peter O’connell]

Hi Jeremiah, elin can be a bit complicated. I had to read the PDF manual 3 times to get it straight. Even if you don’t use all of the more complicated aspects of elin I, just using its logtovid effect gets better results than AE’s channel>cineon converter>logtolin effect in my opinion.
Complicated eh
Pete

[Solie Swan]

Check out Adobe After Effects 6.5 Studio by Mark Christensen (I think I have the spelling correct) as he does a pretty comprehensive walkthough on using elin.