Cloud drawbacks as I see them.

[Steve Eisen]

Adobe has discontinued the Box copies of Creative Suite. There will not be any hard discs of the next version.

If you are a working professional, a 1 year subscription to Creative Cloud would pay for itself in 1 or 2 jobs.

Creative Cloud includes a lot more than just the Master Collection.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group

[Tom Daigon]

Obviously you missed the point of the current discussion here or you did not read all the entries. Nothing is set in stone regarding alternatives to the Cloud. That is unless you work for Adobe and are privy to them. Adobe has not released any information on cost or terms of use of CS Next.

Read Walters pov on this subject. It will enlighten you how other pro software companies give their customers various options. Its your choice if you want to pay month after month to rent software and then walk away with nothing when you stop. I dont think that a smart way of purchasing software.

I prefer to let them know what I as a customer want for my business. Adobe prides themselves on listening to their customers. Here is another opportunity for them to do so.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPrG3WUyz8
(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid

[David Lawrence]

[Tom Daigon] “If I stop paying rent on the Cloud, I can no longer edit at all.”

Tom, it’s actually worse than that. If you stop paying, you lose the ability to open your files. Sorry Adobe, this is unacceptable to me.

There are two situations where I see Creative cloud making sense:

1) Shops that need to temporarily ramp up for production. And then

[Jeff Pulera] “…if an editor leaves, business slows down, whatever, quit “renting” that seat then. You don’t have the investment in software sitting on the shelf if you are not using it.”

Creative Cloud is perfect for this.

2) Students or anyone on a tight budget who needs or wants to try the software now, with minimal investment.

I’m less concerned about physical media. When I initially purchased the CS 5.5 Production Bundle, I did buy physical media, but when I upgraded to CS6, I downloaded the .dmg installer and archived it on my server. I feel an archived .dmg is just as good as physical media going forward.

Regarding updates, there’s no technical reason why Adobe (or any software vendor) can’t digitally deliver feature updates anytime they they want. I believe development, marketing and accounting cycles are much more important in driving feature upgrade release timing than physical media manufacturing.

The question each person has decide for them self is whether they’re OK with the idea of losing access to their files if they stop paying or go offline. For me, any upfront savings are far outweighed by the risks. I need to own the software my business depends on. It’s just that simple.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl

[Tom Daigon]

David I really like Walters suggestion of a middle ground solution. Where I can outright purchase CS Next and subscribe to a maintenance program to get the updates. Read his entry if you havent. And please email Adobe with your concern. I know a lot of other small business owners are concerned about being forced into the Cloud where they dont have ownership of the software .

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPrG3WUyz8
(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid

[David Lawrence]

[Tom Daigon] “David I really like Walters suggestion of a middle ground solution. Where I can outright purchase CS Next and subscribe to a maintenance program to get the updates. Read his entry if you havent. And please email Adobe with your concern. I know a lot of other small business owners are concerned about being forced into the Cloud where they dont have ownership of the software .”

Agreed. I think Walter’s suggestion of an maintenance program is outstanding. I’d be 100% onboard with something like that. Is there a suggestion page for licensing feature requests like this?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl

[Tom Daigon]

If you are on Twitter contact Al Mooney (Production Manager for PrP). Maybe he can help direct you to the right person.

When you find out the best way to do it, please post here so other concerned folks can contact them as well.

Probably better if you dont mention my name. He seems annoyed that Im making a case out of this issue.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPrG3WUyz8
(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid

[Walter Biscardi]

[Tom Daigon] “When I purchased the disks for CS6 I can edit forever with that software.

If I stop paying rent on the Cloud, I can no longer edit at all.

Im not sure why so many folks are so easily suckered into thinking monthly subscription payment is a good thing with issues like these.”

Well, yeah you can edit with it forever provided you stop upgrading your computer / hardware at the last point the software is stable. So now you’re going to be stuck run outdated hardware to support really outdated software. Not saying it’s not possible as I still get emails from people that start out, “Look I’m running Final Cut Pro 5 and I have this issue….”

The update from CS6 to CS Next is tremendous and gets rid of so many of the “annoyances” that slow down the editing process I really don’t see why anyone would want to stay on 6. Adobe has been amazing in our discussions over the past year listening to our input, engaging us with their ideas and the result is nothing short of “checklist almost complete.

The POSITIVES of the Cloud are:

Must faster delivery of the product.

Lower costs since there are no physical products to make / ship.

Access to the entire family of products vs. paying a premium for specific bundles of software. Now I don’t have to choose what to give up, I can have everything.

Adobe is just the first of what will be a gradual move of pretty much everything to Cloud Delivery. I have it running on two systems at the shop and my home based systems and while I was very suspect in the beginning, it’s been a non-issue since I switched.

And the Activation / De-Activation to move around machines has been flawless so far too.

As for paying monthly, well as an Adobe owner you’d pay $30/month which is $360 / year. That’s LESS than the upgrade Prices I paid from CS5.5 to CS6 Production Premium AND it includes everything. Far beyond what we had access to with Premium.

If you don’t want to go Cloud, then don’t, but honestly I really don’t think the negatives are all that big an issue. If for whatever reason you’re going to be out of internet access for 31 days or more, I’m sure Adobe Customer Support will have some sort of a solution for you to keep going. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives. Adobe really won me over with this concept.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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[Tom Daigon]

You bring up some good points Walter. The only issue that really concerns me is the loss of the ability to use the program if for some reason I need to stop my subscription. I guess Im somewhat old fashioned about this.

Walter-“Well, yeah you can edit with it forever provided you stop upgrading your computer / hardware at the last point the software is stable.”

As I understand it, I cannot edit forever with CS Next if I stop paying the monthly fee since I will loose activation of the software.

I really like Walter Soyas solution which is rooted in Avid and Autodesk subscription models.

I think that Creative Cloud is a great option to have, as it lowers the upfront cost to zero, and as I realistically don’t have the option of not upgrading from an interoperability standpoint.

I think perpetual license is a great option to have, as it carries no recurring fees.

There is a middle path. I prefer the maintenance model that companies like Autodesk and Maxon use: you buy into the software, then you pay a regular maintenance/subscription fee. As you as you’re paying, you get updates. If you stop paying, everything you have licensed to that point is still perpetually licensed. If you want another update, you’re going to have to pay retail for it, or pay extra to get back on subscription.

I think maintenance is the best of both worlds. The customer gets regular updates and doesn’t feel locked in. The developer gets a regular revenue stream. I’d love to see Adobe offer something like this.

I know lots of other folks have the same concern as I do on this issue. Knowing how good Adobe is at listening to its customers, Im hopefull they can address this one in a manner that makes everyone happy.

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPrG3WUyz8
(Best viewed at 1080P and full screen)
HP Z820 Dual 2687
64GB ram
Dulce DQg2 16TB raid

[Richard Cardonna]

Maybe if we could prepay for the year it might workout specially for those who upgrade everyear. This would mean no needfor internet connection ( at least once a year) And then maybe have a tear program for those that only need certain program.

Maybe having the option at the end of the year to buy the permanece of the pre upgated version for a better price.
Just another idea.

Just an Idea

Richard

[Petros Kolyvas]

[Michael Hendrix] “Tom, I can see your point, however, when you think about the price, at $50 a month, it would take 3 years to catch up to the price of the production suite. In those three years, you could go through 3 versions of upgrades. Not to mention the fact that you are getting the Master Collection at that price which I think would take another year.

I am of the mindset that if everyone were on the subscription, why would Adobe have to wait for a specific, timed release of a new version. They wouldn’t make anymore money on it because they would have everyone’s monthly subscription fees.”

Unfortunately this math only applies to those who work in single-user shops and don’t have existing software.

Here’s our issue with the cloud:

We’re a small shop, 3 workstations/edit bays, many users depending on who’s working on what project. We have two copies of CS^ Production Premium and 1 copy of the CS6 Master Collection. We’ve been upgrading since CS3 in most cases. That means we already have an investment in the software and in the twelve or so months that have elapse since the release of CS6 the averaged-out monthly cost of a CS6 SEAT (note – not USER) is about $29. The Master Collection seat is in the ballpark of $45.

Adobe wants us to pay $70 PER USER (with a one-year commitment per user) for a business creative cloud membership and doesn’t take into account sunk costs in the software. Since one edit bay may have three different users at any one time, some on a project for a month, some for a year, etc. the cloud model is still too inflexible for us and I imagine the issues only get worse the bigger the team. If I had to foot a $210/month bill for three users on a single machine, I’d turn my back on Adobe pretty quickly.

Thankfully I still can buy the perpetual license.

—
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It’s all learned. – Bruce Ediger