client not paying – need advice!

[Nick Griffin]

DeAnna-
Sounds like you’ve already learned a few valuable lessons, although one not mentioned was the importance of getting a deposit. So… let’s look at how to move FORWARD.

Stop calling her, or for that matter having any contact at all for the next several months. She’s already avoiding you so return the favor. When she realizes that she needs something from you (which realistically may never happen), you’ll be in a stronger position to demand full and immediate payment.

This does not seem like it rises to the level of even small claims court. That kind of activity is almost always more trouble and consumes more of your time than it’s ever worth. Which leads me to:

Get on with it. Dwelling on this just takes time away from the better, and presumably better controlled, projects you have ahead of you. Go out and start looking for new business. Work on your reel. Network. Move on and don’t waste any more time on this one.

[Mark Suszko]

Well, you can read this little gem…

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/17/865818

I agree, the little bit unpaid left owed to you, chalk it up to tuition in the school of hard knocks. Lock up all the clients materials, release nothing more, do not communicate except thru intermediaries, preferably a lawyer or at least a paralegal.

Also read Ron Lindeboom’s classic article on “Grinders”.

That’s what you fell into by being too nice and trusting. It probably isn’t much comfort today, but you are in good company here; the people in our business break down into those who’ve been ripped off by a client already, and those who’s turn has not yet come. If you take the preventive steps outlined in those two references, you are as armored as you can practically be against it ever happening again.

[Todd Terry]

These guys are right, as they almost always are.

Move on.

Maybe there is something unfinished or something that you have that they still need that you can hold until you are paid. But maybe not.

Chalk it up to a hard lesson. I think you’ve learned what to do next time.

And don’t so much as lift a finger for this client again until they have both paid in full, and paid in advance for any additional work they want out of you.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Deanna Villalobos]

Hi guys – Thank you so much for your quick response and knowledgeable advice – it is very much appreciated!

UPDATE: This morning I checked my paypal account, to find she had sent over a little $40 payment. She didn’t let me know she was going to do that – no call/email.
Due to her recent behavior – not wanting to speak by phone – avoiding me at all costs… I think this is yet another ploy to string me along. So she can show that she is being “responsive’ and doing her part to pay.

But at this rate, it will take months to finish off a little $500 balance!

Meanwhile, it looks like she is trying to use the disc I gave her as her product.. as well as all of the graphic work I did – to market and sell her product. So, this is her way of pacifying me while she uses the work I did for her.

* Can I use the fact that she has not paid in full and therefore should not be using my work – as leverage?

I was thinking of sending her a letter – stating that her final disc will be released upon final payment; AND that any use of ANY graphics I created for her is forbidden until final payment is paid.
* she is also using a short sales video I shot for her on her sales/squeeze page.

What do you all think?

I totally understand and can appreciate your advice to chalk it all up as lesson learned – and I am, believe me… but, times being what they are and little mouths to feed at home… this little $500 is alot for me right now. I just want to exhaust all options before I give up.

Any other thoughts on small claims?

thanks again guys!!
DeAnna

*

[Mark Suszko]

You won’t have the time to waste on this in small claims, plus the time spending on the collection end if the judge finds for your side.

If the client posts to youtube, you can protest it as not legally belonging to her and get it knocked off, at least, temporarily.

You could complain to whomever she is trying to sell to/work for. But I do NOT advise taking that step yet.

Document, document, document, every transaction. On the paypal, send back a notice that payment was accepted but the balance is still due. Keep a paper trail and it’s electronic version. If it goes to court you can show a judge there was consideration paid, which validates whatever unwritten contract you had with her. This factor was what let me win such a case long ago against a guy who had ripped me off in similar fashion to what you’ve experienced. He tried to say we had no real contract. My proof that he had started payments, then stopped before being done, was a huge factor in making my case. But it was for much more money than you’re missing, I was unemployed and could make the case itself my “job” for as long as it took to pursue. Your better bet is to work on getting a new client as soon as possible, not wasting your time actively chasing that $450.

[Nick Griffin]

I agree with Mark (and with earlier me). The remedies you have available, ie. – claiming ownership, letter from a lawyer, etc., are more appropriate if the balance due was $4,600 or $46,000. If you want to send her a letter from you stating that she can’t use your stuff two things are going to happen: 1) She’s going to get defensive and 2) She’s likely to stop the micro-payments.

I truly believe that you should be able to make $500 ($460) from someone else with far less effort and way, way, way less negative energy than pursuing this deadbeat. Let it go and move forward.

[Greg Ball]

It seems like you’ve learned a lesson the hard way. I agree with the others. Move on to finding good clients. One thing you should always do is provide a written contract that they sign and also NEVER release a video without payment in full. You’ll be amazed how quickly (good) clients pay when they know you have their video ready but won’t release it without payment.

We send the client their video with timecode burned in until we receive final payment.

[Mike Cohen]

There has been a ton of talk here about all the wrong things in a contract, or the wrongness of not having a contract. Now might be a good time to talk about what a good contract should look like.

In many cases, we have a simple one-pager along these lines (simplified for illustrative purposes):

Statement of Work

We will produce video X.

Process and Costs

Video scripting – estimated 30 pages, 30 minutes
$1000

Video shoot at location to be determined. 1 day, 1 camera + audio, lights, etc
$1000

Editing

We will perform initial edit following script. Client to give feedback
$2000

2nd Edit incorporating editing revisions.
$1500

Final edit – including music, 5 original illustrations and final narration
$2500

Approved final edit to be delivered on DVD, h.264 and WMV files.
$500

If editing revisions beyond 2nd edit but before final edit exceed 10 additional hours, client will be billed $395/hour.

Travel and lodging billed separately at cost.

Payment Terms

upon Acceptance – 50%

Upon delivery of DVD master – 50%

Client will own final edited video. Upon final payment according to the terms in this contract, we will, at client’s request, provide copies of raw footage and master video on DVCAM tape or AVI file.

____

The above is the simple version. Some larger corporations have a statement of work format that you have to use, including a lot of uses of the words WHEREAS, HERETOFORE and ESTOPPEL.

But most of the non-payment situations discussed on this forum seem to be in need of a simple contract that lays out the payment terms and who owns what.

The moral of the story is, get paid something before you do work, and make sure the customer knows the terms of what they are buying and when they can get it.

Mike Cohen

[Nick Griffin]

[Mike Cohen] “get paid something before you do work”

Not the easiest thing to do when just starting out, but a good idea in principle.

Of course the flip side of this, which I’m sure is true for many of us, is working with reliable long-term clients where the expectation is NOT an advance deposit rather periodic or project billing on a regular basis which is paid within normal prescribed terms, ie- 30 days net. If someone is giving me work month in and month out I’m not about to ask for a deposit on each project. The sticky part is making sure that you have approval at all the steps and that everyone stays happy.

[Brendan Coots]

No contract = you’re hosed, plain and simple. Giving a client finished goods before payment, without a contract? That’s just plain suicidal.

The only way you could even hope to win in small claims is if you have emails or other written correspondence wherein she agreed to pay a certain amount that she has not paid. Even then, good luck getting a judge to side with you because that’s not strong evidence since it could be fake, and she could claim it is, your word against hers. In a toss-up like that the judge will opt to do nothing, rather than financially reprimand the defendent without clear proof. The most likely outcome is that the judge will excoriate you for not using a contract and send you on your way.

Chalk it up to learning and never work without a contract again.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com