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client is a pain
I have a client that always comes in 1 week before any personal stuff that i have to attend to in my life. they dont have much money to spend, but they are a huge company. i am going to teachers college for a change in my life. this is due june 22 and that’s when i start teachers college. the job is 8 x 2min videos for the net. This will be aired on june 22 one per week. This client always wants a flat rate, but i always work more hours for free on all the jobs, at the point it doesnt become worth it. what do i do? need money for school but at the same time i dont want to deal with a job like this while i am in school.
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24 Replies
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That’s tough, JD… but I think you are in a position where you just lay out reasonable expectations from the client, reasonble deadlines, and healthy compensation for yourself for the job.
If they can’t meet what you need (especially the money), you smile and wave bye bye.
It sounds like they have been seriously taking advantage of your goodwill in the past, and you don’t need to let them continue doing so especially during a stressful or taxing time. The problem is, the first time you let someone take advantage of you (which sounds like what has happened in the distant past), that sets the bar for their expectations in the future.
Decide what you need to make an stick to it. If they can’t pay that and whine and cry about the money… let em. They can cry to someone else. It’s not your problem that they are cheapskates.
Also… unlike most of us, you don’t have to worry so much about maintaining a great relationship with a past client since you are switching gears with a career change.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Short answer, if you agreed to do the job at that rate…then you should do it and learn from it.
Nex time estimate the job based on past hours and raise your flat rate. We do this all the time. A client comes in with a project. It has very loose and fluid specs that make it difficult to estimate. We estimate it best we can but the job takes 6-8 hours longer than estimated. We stick to the estimate but the minute we go over our budgeted hours we tell the client…saying, “hey…this is taking longer than estimated. We’ll do it for what we quoted, but on the next one, we’ll need to adjust the estimate to compensate.”
Now if a project goes WAAAY over…we sit down and discuss it and tell the client that we’ll have to adjust the budget. but if it’s a reasonable amount, we stick to what we told them.
Most clients like this. They don’t have to go back to their boss or their client and tell them they’re going over budget. They don’t have to have new P.O.s issued. Some clients even say, no problem, we’ll generate a new P.O. and pay for what it costs. Virtually all of them are fine with upping the rate for the next similar job. They appreciate that we don’t try to stick them for extra costs when both parties negoiated in good faith. They also appreciate knowing in advance that the project takes more time so they can let their boss or client know.
We also build in contingencies of anywhere from 3% to 5% on most flat rate projects. So if we bid $25,000 to do a corporate video, we’ll add a 3% contingency which adds $750 to the estimate. That’s a half day of shooting or editing, which can come in handy. We also always add in a full day for revisions on larger projects.
Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com
Read our blog http://www.videomi.com/blog -
Man, you already know what to do. Stop underquoting.
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The other three responses have just about said it all John, but I want to add one tidbit that’s based on that old adage “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Once a client shows their true colors, they will usually never change. That is, unless you put your foot down and threaten to walk away from the negotiating table. Sometimes they’ll just wave goodbye to you, but sometimes they’ll beg you to come back. That’s just business, and that’s how it works. You never know the outcome in advance, but I can assure you of one thing, if the client knows you’re unwilling to walk away, you will almost always find yourself on the losing end of the deal.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
EPK Colorist – UP IN THE AIR – nominated for six academy awards
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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It’s easy for others to judge, when they are not in need of the money. It’s really that easy. You have LOTS of alternatives if you are not desperate for the money – as you have just been told – say “bye bye”, or raise your rates, and if they don’t like it – tough noogies. I can be a “big shot” too, because I have multiple sources of income (many clients) – of course, the classis example is defined by Ron Lindebooms article on “Grinders”, but the only client I have “flipped off” in recent time was a client who always paid their bills, but “when crazy on me” when I fixed his problem, and left the broken unit (under warantee) at his place, back in the box, to be returned to the company. He went out of his mind (screaming at me on the phone) that I had the audacity to just “leave it there” so that “someone else” could take care of the chore of calling UPS to have the box picked up. I have never spoken to this client again.
But again, I am not desperate for his money. If I was, I would still take his work. (by the way, for the record of my little stupid story, I offered to come pick up the box, and bring it right over to UPS while he was yelling, but this was not acceptable to him, because I did not inform him of what my intentions were at the time, which was for him to return the broken unit to the manufacturer).At some point in your life, you have to say “enough is enough”.
Bob Zelin
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Sort of off topic but I came across this today and it made me laugh:
It came from this article which is actually more to the point:
https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/05/25/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-bad-client/
Best,
Tom Meegan
Woven Pixels, LLC -
I need the money, but have some money put away for tuition. I will probably not get a student loan. So you guys think I should charge an hourly for the 8 x 2min vidoes? also do you think its a good idea for me to say i can do 1 or 2 of the videos and don’t commit to the whole thing? I start school in june 20, i would like to do this job but every time i deal with this client it’s never on schedule, that seams to change only when she drops the ball. I also have kids and school runs from 7am-7pm then come home put kids to bed then, just dont want to deal with a pain client at that point. Or maybe there is a way for me to finish before school starts. I don’t know what to do, I want to thank all of you for being good to me on this site.
she says she wants to know my availability for next week on a phone message, then her email said she wants to know when i am available for a meeting at my studio next week. i sent her an email and said tuesday is good. Does this mean that she wants to come over and talk about the job or does she want to dome over and start to cut? I don’t know to much about the job yet. just that they need 8x 2min training / travel video episodes for the web and social markets.
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[johnsabbath d'urzo] “Does this mean that she wants to come over and talk about the job or does she want to dome over and start to cut?”
Sounds like you’re stressing about too many unanswered questions, and I think you simply need to speak with the client and ask her what she has in mind. Communicating is a very good thing, reading minds is not so good.
See if she wants this to be a supervised edit or unsupervised, and try to scare her off from the idea of doing it with supervision. In that case, you just tell her you’re very busy with other high-paying editing jobs, and tell her that if you can do her job in your spare time, on your own time, it will cost her less.
And, as far as the job conflicting with your schooling and other responsibilities, try to never say no, so long as the rate they pay is not abusive. Trust me, money is tight all over, and no one should be turning away work these days if they avoid doing so.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
EPK Colorist – UP IN THE AIR – nominated for six academy awards
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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they have shot the footage i think home video style by amatures with consumer cameras. Don’t think they would have any creative, so i would probably edit stuff on the fly, like the story, soundtrack, voice over, graphics, and intro extro, ftp and upload to the web site and social media sites (what are these formats?)
how much should i be charging for a job like this 8 x 2min episodes? and also should i do a flat or an hourly? I usually do a flat with her but this is a bigger type of job. But every time I do a flat I always put in alot of free time and when i do ask for more money the little that it is, she makes a fuss then it takes 3 months to get paid. Even if the bill is $300.00. Any suggestions? I just don’t want to spend 10k to go to school and mess it up with a low budget job, but I understand what you are saying (money is had to come by). -
please see my previous post above also. i just forgot something David Roth Weiss. In my experience customers want it on there time. If I tell her that I can do it on my own time with a cheaper rate, what if she walks. Do I let her walk? this is very confusing, can’t wait to gear up for another venture in the future.
This video production industry is looking more unstable as the weeks go on. Thanks Dave.
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