cheapest way to view on NTSC monitor?

[Steve Eisen]

Your cheapest card is the firewire port that is built into your G5. FW from G5 to camera, composite video out of camera to televison set.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Director-At-Large
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group

[Ellaella]

Thank you!

[Dave Mac]

Just to be real clear about this…

You need to account for NTSC setup (7.5 IRE) on the analog signal going to the NTSC monitor.

You need to verify that the DVX100A will properly output an analog signal with the required setup added. As I don’t have one of these camcorders, I cannot confirm whether it works properly, or not. According to DVXuser.com, this camcorder and others typically under the $5K price mark, don’t properly add/remove setup.

If it is true (which seems to be the case), you will need to purchase and use a proc amp (see signvideo.com for one example) to get the proper signal into your NTSC monitor (which should be properly calibrated to bars with pluge, as well). However, for the price of the proc amp from Sign Video, you could get a Decklink standard definition I/O card, which would provide the proper setup.

I would recommend a video I/O card. You may want to consider getting a beefier (more feature-laden/higher-priced) card as an investment for the future (especially if you have a PCI Express based G5). As with many things, the cheapest upfront cost items usually end up costing much more down the road in lower productivity/quality/etc.

-Dave

[Ellaella]

Thanks, Dave. I’ll definitely research that.

[Thaxter Clavemarlton]

Your monitor does not need to have set-up applied when viewing a digital source.

[Mitchji]

[Thax] “Your monitor does not need to have set-up applied when viewing a digital source.”

Hi,

If you are viewing Digital footage via an analog connection it DOES need to add setup.

If you are viewing via SDI then you still need to verify that the monitor is set up to display black at 0 IRE via the digital input.

Best Wishes,

Mitch

[Thaxter Clavemarlton]

[MitchJi] “If you are viewing Digital footage via an analog connection it DOES need to add setup.”

Sorry, no.

I use NTSC monitors feeding directly from the analog outputs of DV camcorders in the field for Framing Monitors.

The image coming from the camera does not have set-up applied.
The playback of the tape is, of course, identical in black-level.

The playback of this footage from FCP is identical as well.

SMPTE Bars on the FCP timeline read the black “plunge” just fine without adding setup to the monitor feed.

[Mitchji]

[Thax] “Sorry, no.

I use NTSC monitors feeding directly from the analog outputs of DV camcorders in the field for Framing Monitors.

The image coming from the camera does not have set-up applied.
The playback of the tape is, of course, identical in black-level.

The playback of this footage from FCP is identical as well.”

Hi Thax,

Sorry but you are incorrect.

North American NTSC is specified with black at 7.5 IRE. Of course the image from the camera and the tape and FCP all match, you are playing through the same or similar equipment.

There are two issues here.
1. On correctly adjusted NTSC monitors nothing below 7.5 will be displayed (thats the spec). The monitor should be adjusted with the pluge so that absolute black is 7.5.

2. To meet this spec a lot of equipment adds 7.5 (DVD players for example). So if you create a DVD from your material it won’t be correct.

As long as you are using a misadjusted monitor and limiting your playback to equipment that doesn’t output correct North American NTSC you will be fine but otherwise…

Best Wishes,

Mitch

[Dave Mac]

Well, I guess I wasn’t clear enough… 😉

There is a subtle issue that is being misunderstood in this discussion. That is, what someone would view as a proper preview on an external broadcast monitor and what the analog video signal “black level” would be measured as.

For a “best practices” workflow, and better fault tolerance, it is ideal to output an analog signal with the proper black levels. That way, whether you are simply previewing the video, or recording to analog tape, everything would be configured properly. This is especially important in a situation where many people may use the same equipment.

I would like restate the context to make sure we are all considering the same workflow setup (pun not necessarily intended). I will limit my comments to the case where a camcorder is acting as the A->D and
D->A converter, a FireWire connection to the Mac (from the camcorder), and the camcorder connected to an external broadcast NTSC monitor. Further, let’s say that the camcorder is capable of producing a proper set of SMPTE color bars (with PLUGE), and that we have turned off any setting related to NTSC black level setup (7.5 IRE). My primary source of reference for my comments is Graeme Nattress’ excellent article “Video Levels in Final Cut Pro.”

Okay, on to the specifics…

[Thax] “Your monitor does not need to have set-up applied when viewing a digital source.”

and

[Thax] “Sorry, no.

I use NTSC monitors feeding directly from the analog outputs of DV camcorders in the field for Framing Monitors.

The image coming from the camera does not have set-up applied.
The playback of the tape is, of course, identical in black-level.

The playback of this footage from FCP is identical as well.

SMPTE Bars on the FCP timeline read the black “plunge” just fine without adding setup to the monitor feed.”

While these statements are technically correct, they omit additional information that would have helped the audience’s understanding of the issue, and, as a result, come off as rather smug.

[MitchJi] “If you are viewing Digital footage via an analog connection it DOES need to add setup.

If you are viewing via SDI then you still need to verify that the monitor is set up to display black at 0 IRE via the digital input.”

These statements are true if you are considering the actual video signal black levels. If you were to connect a hardware waveform monitor to the external broadcast monitor, looping through the signal, then you would see that the actual analog video signal does not have the proper setup applied. In any case, you can still calibrate your external broadcast monitor (using the proper SMPTE bars with PLUGE) as Thax suggested.

[MitchJi] “There are two issues here.
1. On correctly adjusted NTSC monitors nothing below 7.5 will be displayed (thats the spec). The monitor should be adjusted with the pluge so that absolute black is 7.5.

2. To meet this spec a lot of equipment adds 7.5 (DVD players for example). So if you create a DVD from your material it won’t be correct.

As long as you are using a misadjusted monitor and limiting your playback to equipment that doesn’t output correct North American NTSC you will be fine but otherwise…”

Item 2 is incorrect, as a digital video signal ranges from 16 to 235 (or 0 to 100 percent) in FCP. Only when the DVD is played in a set-top player connected to a TV set, or monitor, is setup added if the equipment is NTSC.

———-

Summary:

[] Thax’s scenario of previewing video is valid (see Graeme’s article, as he discusses this directly). The workflow is self-consistent. If you calibrate your external broadcast monitor (EBM) to the proper color bars on the camcorder (with no setup turned on), the preview from the camcorder (live and from tape) will be corrrect (if everything is working properly). Likewise, if you calibrate your EBM to bars from within FCP, the preview will be correct. All with no setup added or any consideration given to such.

However, the analog video signal’s black levels will be incorrect if you used the same workflow to go to VHS or other analog tape formats (because there is no setup added), or if you recorded analog signals on your camcorder (or passed them through via FW to your Mac). This applies to the situation where no NTSC setup is turned on in the camcorder (many camcorders don’t work properly with this feature active, anyway).

For simply previewing your video, this workflow is fine. I personally find it more confusing and would rather know that all my signal levels are correct at each point in the workflow.

[] I would suggest that for a “best practices” workflow, you would want to have everything configured with the proper signal levels, as appropriate.

[Ron James]

[MitchJi] “2. To meet this spec a lot of equipment adds 7.5 (DVD players for example). So if you create a DVD from your material it won’t be correct.”

I believe digital is always 0 IRE. The playback device (in this case, a DVD player) adds setup for analogue playback.

NTSC monitoring is essential whether you have setup added or not.