changing picture edit AFTER sound has been mixed (with OMF file)

[Nicole Chung]

Okay, that’s what I thought!

I was reading this post:
https://digitalfilmmaker.net/dv/features/soundpp/index.html

“These days the sound edit can happen during a picture edit in the NLE or there can be a separate edit in Pro Tools depending upon the needs of the project.”

[Michael Gissing]

No it is not normal to do sound post before picture lock but it does happen. We also have to deal with this issue often as I might mix a feature length version of a doco and then have the cutdown for TV with variations for different markets.

The technique I mostly use is to get an EDL of the original cut and the recut and then use Editrace to do a compare and create a change list –
https://www.editrace.com/

If there have been new shots added, then an OMF of just the new material is required. The easiest way to do this is to make new tracks and put the new audio on the new tracks. Turn off all other tracks and make the OMF. OMFs don’t recognise In/Out markers so you can’t use that technique. A new reference quicktime of the whole program is needed so that the reversion can be checked for sync.

Most important is to talk to your sound post people as they may have their own preferences. Simple changes like swapping a shot can also be done by keeping a note of the shots changed if length remains unaffected. Cutting and pasting multiple audio tracks with mix automation is not trivial. I reversion both pictures and sound and sound is always a much more complex process.

[Shane Ross]

You’ll have to talk to your mixer. Ask him how much this will mess things. See if you can resend the OMF and have him conform the cut. You need to make changes to the version with your ORIGINAL mix…not the one with the returned audio files.

Then re-OMF…they reconform and get you new audio stems.

But talk to your audio guy…not us. THEY will be the ones dealing with it.

And I ONLY give the audio guy stuff to mix when things are LOCKED. If I am in a rush, I go act by act.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Nicole Chung]

I literally only need to swap two shots, but I am going to go into my edit later today and take a look (to double check how the swapping of shots affects the surrounding shots)

Going forward on this – because I would like to be picture-locked the next time – how do I get clear editing feedback *before* a proper sound mix?

It seems like the sound mix – because it was so good – has really changed people’s perception of the edit…

Hope this isn’t considered a “bump”

[Shane Ross]

[nicole chung] “how do I get clear editing feedback *before* a proper sound mix?”

Make your temp sound mix sound REALLY good. It needs to sound like a full mix. Music, sound effects, broll audio. Everything needs to be mixed by you. You can’t just leave all the adding of sound or adjusting of levels to the audio guy. Your temp mix needs to sound like a full mix.

[nicole chung] “It seems like the sound mix – because it was so good – has really changed people’s perception of the edit…”

Which is EXACTLY why you do the full mix yourself.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Michael Gissing]

Swapping shots without changing length is trivial and should be no problem for anyone. Total recuts and reversioning is the difficult task.

There is no formula for getting lock off. The skill and experience of editors, directors, producers and often commissioning editors are required and this isn’t something you can control. Fiddles can and do happen after a mix. All that really matters is the changes improve the program.

[Frank Nolan]

[Michael Gissing] “Swapping shots without changing length is trivial and should be no problem for anyone.”

Ahhhhh spoken like a true editor.
Of course that 20 second shot you just swapped out didn’t affect timing at all because the new shot is 20 secs as well, but now it is an exterior scene of a space ship firing lazer guns at the 6 enemy spaceships that are surrounding it and whizzing by at the speed of light, instead of the interior shot of the captain sitting at his desk contemplating which course to take. It’s just trivial and probably not even worth mentioning to the sound editor and mixer:) Of course it’s not a problem to build the sound for a 20sec spaceship dog fight scene but how much extra money do you have?

[Michael Gissing]

[Frank Nolan] “Ahhhhh spoken like a true editor.”

I grade, online and sound post. I deal with this sort of thing all the time. Swapping shots means you can swap existing sound elements and not have to ripple automation files as overall timing is unaltered. Compared to major sequence recutting and adding new shots, yes this is trivial.

Perhaps you mistake swapping two shots in a sequence with replacing two shots with new material.

[Frank Nolan]

[Michael Gissing] “Perhaps you mistake swapping two shots in a sequence with replacing two shots with new material.
“

Quite possible. normally when I hear an editor say “Oh I just swapped out a few shots, the timing is still the same though”, I end up seeing the sort of thing I referred to in the previous post.

[Michael Gissing]

I took Nicole literally

[nicole chung] “I literally only need to swap two shots”

I didn’t mean to make out that changes after a mix were trivial. I was speaking relatively.