Capturing 1080/25p HDCAM

[Gary Adcock]

[Jack Kelly] “But I wonder if all “25p” is actually 25PsF (i.e. the camera captures 25p but records 50i to tape without any movement between the two fields).”

Hey Jack,

Gary (CML) again.

ALL sony cameras record Psf to tape internally, it is the nature of the 1080 format as Sony describes it. That means that virtually all HD 1080 files from video sources are actually segmented frame. There is not an ATSC spec for TRUE P delivery in 1080, acquisition yes, delivery no.

Currently the best way to get “true P” files is using frame based workflows.The Real High end cameras, {Viper Genesis,F900x, Red, SI, Vision Research) recording to external decks or as file based workflows can record as True Progressive — if you know how to set an HDCAMSR deck to record progressive rather than Psf.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Jack Kelly]

Hi Gary,

Thanks loads for the reply.

So, just to make sure I understand correctly…

if the BlackMagic Decklink card claims to be able to handle 1080/50i then will it definitely be able to handle 1080/25PsF shot on a Sony camera like the HDW-750P HDCAM camera?

Thanks loads,
Jack

====================
Jack Kelly
London
Dir / Prod / Camera
Jack-Kelly.com – my homepage
====================

[Gary Adcock]

[Jack Kelly] “f the BlackMagic Decklink card claims to be able to handle 1080/50i then will it definitely be able to handle 1080/25PsF shot on a Sony camera like the HDW-750P HDCAM camera?”

Correct as long as you understand It has nothing to do with the Card. The Card is conforming to the spec for capture.

The spec is called “25p” but the delivery is 50i much the same as it is in PAL. it is the same in the NTSC world – the only difference being we use non-integer timecode.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Jack,

Gary is right and the easy setup to use is Blackmagic HDTV 1080i50. We have a support note named Does DeckLink HD support HDTV1080p/25 in Final Cut Pro? which briefly discusses 1080 25p, 25PsF and 50i.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Jack Kelly]

ah, that’s great news. thanks loads for the reply.

jack.

====================
Jack Kelly
London
Dir / Prod / Camera
Jack-Kelly.com – my homepage
====================

[Michael Ward]

Hi, I have a sony XDCAMEX and I want to import
and edit footage using my new eight core 2.8
Apple.

The new sony handy cam (XDCAM) shoots 1080 25p,
but my Decklink Edit card does not seem to like it.

I have read the threads, and have followed Decklinks
instructions for 25p easy setup (using 50i), but could
not get it working.

Has anyone using one of the new PMWEX1’s or PMW EX3’s,
edited footage on final cut pro using a DeckinK HD
Extreme 2 card – at 1080 25p??

Can anyone give me a yes or no answer on this?

Has anyone edited 1080 25p on a Decklink HD
Extreme card using a Apple Eightcore, Final cut Pro (studio 2),
and a Sony PMW EX1?

I have this set up – Thanks Mike

Will I have to dump the deckilink and move to a Kona Card
(AJA)

[Richard Critchlow]

Hi There,
Have you solved this. I am trying to do the same thing and wonder if the issue is that CMOS sensors do record true progressive?
Regards
Richard

[Gary Adcock]

[Richard Critchlow] “Have you solved this. I am trying to do the same thing and wonder if the issue is that CMOS sensors do record true progressive? “

The Ex, XDCam and all of the HDCam series cameras shoot PsF, only RED and Phantom shoot 1080 as True Progressive.

This has nothing to do with sensor as the RED and Phantom cameras that shoot 1080 as P are both CMOS.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Jack Kelly]

“The Ex, XDCam and all of the HDCam series cameras shoot PsF, only RED and Phantom shoot 1080 as True Progressive. This has nothing to do with sensor as the RED and Phantom cameras that shoot 1080 as P are both CMOS.”

We need to distinguish between what the camera’s sensor captures and what the camera dumps to tape. For example, the sensor on my old Panasonic DVX100 shoots a “true” progressive image but the camera dumps the 25p signal to tape as 50i (i.e. “25p over 50i”). I imagine the same is true of the XDCam and Ex cameras. Indeed, I’m fairly certain that the definition of PsF is something like “the sensor captures progressive but this is laid to tape as an interlaced signal”. In other words, the two fields represent exactly the same slice of time. It’s a bit of an ugly system but I believe it’s required to maintain backwards compatibility with kit that doesn’t know about progressive images.

====================
Jack Kelly
London
Dir / Prod / Camera
Jack-Kelly.com – my homepage
====================

[Gary Adcock]

[Jack Kelly] “We need to distinguish between what the camera’s sensor captures and what the camera dumps to tape”

Jack, It is the nature of the format Sony uses to playback as interlace, so no matter what the playback of the content is considered interlaced for baseband transport in the US and Europe.

Secondary to the discussion is why do you need to change the transport? have you ever looked at true 25p content (or for those in the NTSC world 24)? Without the frame segmentation the content is incredibly hard to watch, as the PsF process is no different that what goes on in a movie theatre using a double shuttering when projecting film to an audience.

“In other words, the two fields represent exactly the same slice of time. It’s a bit of an ugly system but I believe it’s required to maintain backwards compatibility with kit that doesn’t know about progressive images. “

ARRGGHHH- it cannot possibly be “true progressive” if it is captured or played back with any kind of fields. Progressive is frames only. Hence the reason 720 is 50p while 1080 is played back 50i.

There is an additional issue with PsF when it comes to output displays- do you what happens when you send a interlaced signal out via HDMI?

HDMI line doubles signals so that the display receives progressive only imagery- so often times there are visual anomalies in regards to field order when the doubling occurs, especailly when objects are moving across the screen.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php