Can’t decide between Lavalier or shotgun mic

[David C jones]

Hi Dan,

If you only go with one mic, I’d recommend the Sanken COS-11 lav. In a comprehensive test that was done a few years back, the one doing this test found it matched boom mics the best. It’s my favorite mic.

Best,

Dave J

[Dan Shaw]

Thanks Dave. I was looking at the Sanken COS-11 lav and it sounds like that would be a better fit for my productions right now.

While I have your attention, I was planning on running the lav into my Zoom H4N, but just started reading about low noise preamps (ex: Juiced Link) and how the H4N is not the best when it comes to noise. Should I be worrying about that or do you think the sound quality would be fine going from lav to H4N?

[Brian Reynolds]

For stuff like you are wanting to shoot I’m going to suggest something a little different.
Use a mic stand with boom arm with a hyper-cardioid mic or short shotgun mic on it, ideally facing down as an overhead mic or second choice facing upward, but need to get them in as close as possible as the shot will allow.
The standard sort of mic for this shoot would be a Senni 416, Rode NTG3 or similar, if you want to be impressed with a mic (at a very low price) for this sort work try these….. https://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/condenser-microphones/c02/
https://www.zzounds.com/item–SAMC02
I do a lot of commercial / DOCO shoots often in green screen or sit down interview style and I just love these mics. They are also a lot more tolerant to slight head movements than short shot gun mics.

My only negative comment is they are not brilliant outdoors in wind (shot guns are better in that situation) but indoors….. stunning !!!!!!

PS. for the first couple of indoor shoots using the Samson mic I mounted it side by side to a 416 and recorded them on separate tracks and then used the best sound… after about 4 shoots and always choosing the CO2, I now no longer double mic.
Here are some commercials done with that mic, and all had the reflections of a table to deal with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMzWuu3Lj5k&feature=relmfu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGRvymv50w&feature=relmfu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMUnATfrR3Q&feature=relmfu

[Peter Groom]

Well I am a fan of the Cos 11, but with that framing, Id go for a short shotgun on a stand with its tip just out of frame. And I mean JUST.
I think that will likely give a better warmth, and youll have to bury a personal mic which always lessens their clarity.

Id also consider putting some cushions / large absorbent materials on the floor around the person. Its out of shot and will mute the 1st reflections to the mic pointing down at the floor.

If the floor is not SOLID, put the feel to the mic stand on rubber to lessen structural vibrations, and try to use a shockmount on the mic rather than just clipping to the stand boom arm.
Listen to the acoustic of the space. If you can hear a reverb, your recording WILL have it, and you cant get rid. Look at what you can do to lessen it before pressing record. Drapes, soft furnishings, Angling the shout away from a parallel surface etc etc. Spend time before the recording to get it right.
And 1) Make a test recording.
2) Listen to it back and check for problems away from the shoot location in a quite space.
3) Wear headphones throughout. Dont take them off for anyone.
4) If there is a problem STOP and fix it. Dont press on then wonder how to fix it later.

Good luck

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

[Steve Kownacki]

All good info.

I prefer super/hyper cardiod just out of frame on a boom on a c-stand. Then a wired lav as 2nd choice. You could hide the mic in the hair too to elim that off-axis tone.

Peter mention reflection control. Cheap packing blankets on the floor and just out of frame do wonders.

My selection of mics usually has to do with the amount of time I have for setup and if I’m travelling solo. A lav for run-n-gun is great. If I have time and budget, I’ll bring a c-stand, boom, & supercardiod. Studio work like the shot you propose would be a boom setup for me.

Steve

[Dan Shaw]

Brian, Peter, Steve, thanks for chiming in. It sounds like a shotgun on a boom would work also and with my white background I could put it very close to me and even edit it out in post since I have a white background. I like that!

I was planning on running the mic into my Zoom H4N, but just started reading about low noise preamps (ex: Juiced Link) and how the H4N is not the best when it comes to noise. Should I be worrying about that or do you think the sound quality would be fine going from mic to H4N?

Any thoughts?

[Steve Kownacki]

I used an H4N for the first time last week and I’m confused by that device. No problems with the sound quality, but it’s not a SoundDevices. My opinion would be turn off all the auto stuff, limiters, compressors, etc and feed it with line level from a good mixer and bypass the mic pre.

Steve

[Ty Ford]

Hello Dan and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Not a shotgun indoors unless you are on a soundstage. A hyper or super.

Here’s why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUSXP-a3hA

Regards,

Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford’s Blog

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[Dan Shaw]

Ty – Thanks for that video! I think I watched about 50 on youtube, and somehow missed yours. Fantastic job and it really gave me a good idea for the different types of mics.

I’ll be shooting this in a spare room so there most likely will be having some sound bounce off the walls. I’m starting to understand there there really isn’t just one mic the does it all. Too bad!

Looks like now I will do some research on hypercardioid mics. 🙂

[Steve Kownacki]

And don’t overlook renting this stuff, there’s no need to buy everything – you’ll go broke. Or hire and experienced soundperson and learn. And for sure you don’t want to buy a mic and put it right into action without gaining some experience in a similar environment before you try it in a client situation.

Steve