Canon PF30 footage in 720 30p Project? (I thought I had this down)

[Rafael Amador]

[Dave Gage] “When files are added to the timeline and I check in the inspector, the Canon “30p” files show up as 29.97 fps, 1080i.”
They must show as 29,97 “P”.
As the article says, the footage is “psf” and must be interpret Progressive, no interlaced.
The time-base (29,97) is correct.

[Dave Gage] “Is the 1280×720 30p Project still my best”
1280x720p is also 29,97, although is not PSF as happens with 1080p30.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Dave Gage]

Rafael,

[Rafael Amador] “1280x720p is also 29,97, although is not PSF as happens with 1080p30.”
I didn’t quite follow that. I am still shooting at 1920×1080 PF30 but using the 720p timeline for keyframed zooms and pans. I also must admit that even though I’ve read up on it a few times over the years, I’ve still not quite got my head around pulldown and the difference between 29.97 and 30. I wrongly assumed the files would come in as 30p by default based on the Canon camera settings.
—

Do you have a recommendation for this my situation? Can I just add my footage to the 720 30p timeline and have FCP deal with it on export? If I use ClipWrap to wrap first, the file does show up in the Inspector as 1920×1080 | 29.97, 1080p (vs. 1080i without first wrapping). If I go with the ClipWrap option, then I would set up a 1280×720 29.97p Project.

[I noticed that the 720p timeline still needs to render because I’m adding the 1080 footage to it, but if I set up a test 29.97 1080p timeline and add the wrapped file, there is no render bar.]

Sorry for the questions, I’m just not sure if this a big deal or not. As I’m finalizing my set up to do a ton of web tutorials, I figure I might as well try to nail down the workflow now before I get involved with the shooting and editing.

Thanks,
Dave

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Dave,
Canon DSLRs makes real p30, but I guess you are referring to the canon Vixia HF S100 camcorder, which makes 29,97fps (progressive or interlaced).
When this camera records 1080p29,97 (sometimes called p30), writes the file as interlaced (that is call Progressive Segmented Frame).
That’s not a problem when you edit the footage in an Interlaced project/sequence, but when you want to edit that as progressive you have to tell FCPX (or whatever other application you use), to treat that the stuff as Progressive.
I don’t have FCPX with me but I think is in the Inspector “General Tab” where you have to check the footage as Progressive”.
The interlacing is only issue you have to take care.
You have no problem about 30 vs 29,97 because the camera makes 29,97 and 1280x720p30 is really p29,97.
Once you have interpreted the footage as progressive, the footage won’t need to render in 1980p29,97.
In 1280×720 will need because the different size.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Dave Gage]

Rafael,

I spent what may have been too much time last night researching this, but here’s what I came up with:

Writer Allan Tépper has a series of articles on just this issue and it’s essentially new info as of the last month or so.
—

In part 1 here,
https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_em_part_1_benign_psf_versus_malignant_psf/

…he defines two new terms, benign PsF and malignant PsF. It appears that most of the Canon prosumer video camcorders like my Vixia HF S100 create the “malignant” type PsF file. In a nutshell, the camera creates a progressive file, but mis-tags it so that even the most recent versions of PP 5.5 and FCP X mistake it as an interlaced file. Here’s more from Allan on this:
https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/empsf8217s_missing_workflow_em_part_2_the_canon_xa10_camera/
https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_part_7_adobe_premiere_pro_cs5.5.x/

It’s explained that this file must be modified slightly so that the editing program can correctly identify the file as progressive. Otherwise, FCP X will try to de-interlace a file that doesn’t need to be de-interlaced and will ultimately result in unwanted artifacts and lack of sharpness.

At this point, there appears to be two solutions:
https://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2011/12/02/editing-canon-30p-pf30-footage-in-fcpx/

Solution 1 for Canon PF30 – Malignant PsF- Simply import into FCPX twice:
-Use Import From Camera to import your footage into Event 1.
-Then, use Import Files, and import the files in Final Cut Events / Event1 / Original Media – and put them into a new Event 2.

Solution 2 for Canon PF30 – Malignant PsF- Use ClipWrap to pre-wrap the .MTS files and FCP X will recognize them as Progressive.
https://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_part_8_clipwrap_to_the_rescue/
https://www.divergentmedia.com/blog/fullpost/announcing_clipwrap_244_update
—

I will likely go with the ClipWrap solution as the free solution is just too many hoops for me to jump through to get work done. Once I’ve gotten the PF30 file correctly tagged as progressive, I will set up my new Project as 1280×720 HD, 29.97p and get to editing.

Thanks,
Dave

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Dave,
the story of the PSF is very old.
HDV started to record PSF because was the way to use the mechanism of an interlaced camera to use Progressive stuff.
The solution was as easy as to check the clips as Progressive (in FC Browser, or AE “Interpret footage”) before starting to edit.
You can do it in FCPX too.
Have a look here:

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/344/5265#5314

In “Field Dominance Override” you must set “Progressive”, then should work.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Dave Gage]

Rafael,

(I appreciate you taking the time to go through this with me.)

You very well may be correct on this…

[Rafael Amador] “In “Field Dominance Override” you must set “Progressive”, then should work.”

…but based on the original article last paragraph:

“When I was trying to find the difference between the first and second import, I noticed the second had the Field Dominance Override set to “Progressive”. Aha, I thought…one could simply change this setting on the original first-import footage, and it will be interpreted as 29.97p. And at first glance, it appears to work. However, if you take this footage and put it in a 29.97p timeline, it will have to render, and this should be unnecessary. Just using a second import step eliminates this problem.”
https://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2011/12/02/editing-canon-30p-pf30-footage-in-fcpx/

I did end up buying the full version of ClipWrap yesterday and have started to re-wrap my files with the .MOV extension and it not only solves the PsF issue, but now allows me preview the files in QT 7, toss the not-needed files, and then re-name them before importing into FCP X (which ultimately works better for my brain and workflow). I have never been a big fan of the Camera Archive mess, so this also allows me to file away all my footage in a more understandable manner without having to first open FCP X.

Thanks again,
Dave