-
C300 = Fail
-
Not meaning to come off like a Red fanboy, but I don’t get why anyone would choose the C300 over a Red One MX for any project.
Canon C300:
Super 35mm CMOS chip at 4k pixels but can only record to 1080p / 720p
50mbps MPEG-2 codec = a miserable travesty of a compression algorithm that introduces visible artifacts to even well exposed footage. It also plays back horribly Resolve, to the point where it has to be transcoded to something else prior to starting a grade.
8 bit file format
4.2.2 color sampling
$14999 street price (huh?!)Red One MX:
Slightly smaller than Super-35 CMOS 4k 2:1
Redcode wavelet compressed 4k raw at various compression levels
High speed capable at 3k & 2k
PL mount, with alternate mounts available
raw bayer sensor data, so no color undersampling like C300
$17k new (no longer available), $4000 pre-owned from REDHaving graded a lot of feature films & commercials shot on Red by everything from complete amateurs to some of the best DPs in the business, and having graded a little bit of C300 from one of those ‘best DPs in the business’, I can say that all else being equal, C300 footage is inferior in almost every way I can think of to Red One MX.
If you have a reason why the C300 is a better choice than Red One MX, I’d actually like to hear it.
JT
John Tissavary | colorist | owner
The Post Collective -
Hi John,
No doubt the Red wins on the specs – but I also think Red cameras have a way of underperforming their specs…
Basically I would my preference down to the Red’s rendition of reds, yellows and greens, especially in projects where skin tones should be saturated but strange contours of green and yellow appear around eyes and mouths. It was the worst in some of the old “RedColor” color space settings. Resolve can apply the newer decoder settings, thankfully, but I still hold it against the Red One. Working with intercut Epic and Red One material demonstrates that new decoder options don’t quite make up the difference.
The C300 has a lot of different issues. I did two similar spots for the same client yesterday, one MX and one C300. The C300 landed more quickly and was more appealing (in my opinion). Lots of projects I’m sure it wouldn’t work out that way.
KC
-
I haven’t had to really work with it too much, I never recommended it to any of my clients for these exact reasons… People need to learn that 8-bit isn’t enough.
That said, I do know someone who’s very happy with the C300, but she mainly uses for verité doc shoots. I played with it a bit and I could see why she likes it. Ergonomically going hand-held with it felt really nice, steady without a specialized kit.
Her kit fits in her backpack, and gets decent quality in low light. It also has a low-footprint, it looks like a dslr or a still format camera, which lets her get in and out of places where she might not be able to go with a Red or setup a BMCC.
I think it’s just that the C300 was designed with documentary / eng in mind, and the BMCC was designed with post in mind.
Joseph Mastantuono
http://www.goodpost.net
Color Grading & Post Production Consulting -
Absolutely it’s the form factor / eng aspect of the c300
That is appealing to some of my clients
Far more important than pure specs in many situations
Tough to work with after the fact for sure thoughhttp://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish -
Red’s color problems are long gone.
Use RedColor 3 with an MX chip and you will see no skin tone issues whatsoever.
c300 is for people who are not smart enough or too lazy to learn the simple methods of grading Red footage.
As for price, Red MX packages are around 10-12K on eBay or Reduser. $4000 garage sale is long over.
-
[Robert Ruffo] “Red’s color problems are long gone. Use RedColor 3 with an MX chip and you will see no skin tone issues whatsoever.
Strongly disagree. Working with Scarlet and Red One MX today, and I see all the problems I described with all set to RedColor3. And the director sees it as well. Fortunately we have time to work.
c300 is for people who are not smart enough or too lazy to learn the simple methods of grading Red footage.
I don’t pick the cameras, or own any. I’m not really worried about their reputations either. I’m happy to grade any of them. When the ASC and producer’s guild did their single-chip camera shootout with the MX and the Alexa and others, they timed how long colorists took to to grade the digital cameras to match the same shot on 35mm. Red took longer to match than any other single-chip cinema camera – I don’t think they used lazy or stupid colorists. So even if the methods are simple (debatable), they are time consuming. Personally, I think Red is slightly more complex to grade than the other cameras, and in a way, has helped colorists become indispensable over the last 5 years, injected some fresh blood into the post production market, and forced other companies to accelerate their digital cinema offerings.
But it doesn’t have to be my favorite.
KC
-
I have definitely found that RED productions require RED users… Most operators/DPs that I’ve talked to, and some that I haven’t but have seen enough of their work to make some guesses, have made it clear that cameras like the Alexa, VariCam (tape or tapeless) or F3 (XD Cam issues aside) can pretty much be picked up and better than acceptable results achieved by someone who knows how to shoot but may not be familiar with the camera.
RED on the other hand, to get better than acceptable results, the operator/DP needs to be a RED operator/DP. Otherwise acceptable is the best you are likely to get…
And I would argue that the same must be said for the Finish, that would be based on my experience… I like it, but it is a pain to work with.
By saying that I don’t mean to say that RED is a bad camera or ecosystem, it just requires more experience and time than other formats.
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up