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Broadcast, Cable, Copyright.
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I’m reading the Aereo, Inc case currently. Here’s the Hollywood Reporter story https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/tv-broadcasters-ask-supreme-court-647849 and the case is linked at the bottom of that report.
Very interesting territory.
I’m making a pretty good living cutting commercials for Charter (the local cable provider). It’s cool and good work because a lot of the mom and pop shops just need some help driving business; they’ve got everything invested in the shop. I help sway commerce their direction. It’s very cool. I’m a part of a bigger sales team who pitches and closes (always closing) to the locals. The sales team needs sizzle reels of broadcast content that matches the potential demographic of the particular business. This includes every famous show you can imagine, plus every sporting event. In the past, previous vidiots cut the spots no questions asked, but I stopped the practice because it seems like copyright infringement. What say ye?
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[Richard Herd] “I’m making a pretty good living cutting commercials for Charter (the local cable provider)”
I didn’t think that was even possible! Tell me more..
Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production… with style!Check out my Mormon.org profile.
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OB “…not a lawyer, blah blah blah…” Also, long post.
Richard, this whole area is a little squishy, partly because it depends on the audience.
I’ve cut more network sales and sizzle and upfront reels than I care to think about. In the case of up fronts, the audience is ad agencies and their buyers. Lots of money at stake, etc. We never worry about, say, music rights clearance for these presentations. It can be argued that these are private use, not public exhibitions, and no money is charged or directly made from the presentations. Whereas the networks are scrupulous about getting music clearance from all parties for broadcast use (which is why we use mostly library music instead of pop music for 99% of promos), all bets are off for upfront presentations. Same goes for sales and/or sizzle reels.
What you’re describing falls into the same non-public-exhibition-for-profit category. An on-air (or “on-cable”) sizzle is promotional, and there’s no problem showing the clips. If Charter licenses the shows for air, those shows can be used for promotion. If the clips are used to promote something else (like an on-demand viewer app, for instance), some kind of tune-in info (“NCIS, Sundays at 9) makes it safe for use. Again, using the clips in a “private” use such as sales meetings or pitching clients is standard use in broadcast and cable.
A nervous nelly lawyer will ALWAYS say no as a reflex. Usually it’s because he doesn’t really know the answer, so “no” is safe. Realistically, it would be impossible to get clearances from even a fraction of the rights holders in this situation. Sales reels may fall into a a grey area, since you’re using the copyrighted material not just to promote, but also ultimately to make money. This future money-making is probably what freaks out the lawyer. But in reality, it’s a non-issue.
tl;dr: Using clips for promotion is fair game. Sales and sizzle reels shown in private meetings to generate future sales are fair game. Music or other copyrighted used in a promo or sizzle must be cleared if used “on-air.” Licensing isn’t needed for private sales meetings and the like. Decades of network practice says so.
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[Todd Terry] “It ALL DEPENDS ON THE DEAL, but television programs are generally owned by the producers of the show, not primarily by the networks on which they appear. SOMETIMES a network will own a show outright, but that’s highly unusual. Usually the producer owns the show and the network might own a piece of it, or the producer owns the show outright.”
Actually if you’re talking Cable Networks, it’s completely the opposite. The networks own the shows, not the producers. Scripps which owns Food Network, Travel Channel, HGTV and others owns pretty much all of the programming outright. “Good Eats” which I worked on, is owned by Scripps, not Alton Brown who created and produced the series.
This is true of just about every cable network I’ve ever pitched to. If they pick up the show, they pay 100% production costs and walk away with ownership of the show free and clear.
If you’re talking traditional broadcast network, then yes, usually the networks are licensing the shows and the ownership remains with the Producers.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative MediaCraft and Career Advice & Training from real Working Creative Professionals
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[walter biscardi] “Actually if you’re talking Cable Networks, it’s completely the opposite.”
Originally I was speaking of broadcast networks, specifically. Being an old broadcast guy, I’m still of the opinion that “cable network” is an oxymoron… but actually I think we’re saying exactly the same thing, in different ways…
[walter biscardi] “…they pay 100% production costs and walk away with ownership…”
Exactly… the cable network is paying for the production costs… ergo in that scenario the cable network is the producer. They do own the show, but in that case they own the show not because of simply where it aired, but because they produced it.
Or I can imagine a situation where a cable network might have the opportunity to take an already-produced show and simply buy it. They didn’t produce it, but do have ownership rights because they bought them.
As I said, it depends on the deal.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Todd Terry] “Exactly… the cable network is paying for the production costs… ergo in that scenario the cable network is the producer. They do own the show, but in that case they own the show not because of simply where it aired, but because they produced it.”
No, they don’t actually “produce” the show. The shows are produced by third party production companies. In the case of “Good Eats” you’ll see that the producer of the series was B2 Productions. Alton’s own company.
But everyone involved in the show has to sign over all rights of all their work to the Food Network. Food only “produces” the series in the sense that they only pay for it. Very few of the networks actually produced their own programming.
It’s rare a cable network series is produced that is not wholly owned by the cable net. I think that was the model when they first really started out and it has stuck through the years. That’s the major reason I’m moving away from cable and broadcast altogether with my new venture and going directly multi-platform delivery.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative MediaCraft and Career Advice & Training from real Working Creative Professionals
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[walter biscardi] “No, they don’t actually “produce” the show.”
Tomato tomahto. I’m using the old Hollywood producer designation… i.e., the fat cat who pays for the shootin’ match… as Walter said “they pay 100% production costs.” In my book (and most people in the industry), that’s the big all-encompassing PRODUCER (the one in all caps), whether or not they have anything to do with the hands-on gettin’-it-done, have a logo on an end slate, or have ever set foot on a location or set.
I don’t really know any of these shows or people, but I bet if you ask The All You Can Eat network, “So do you guys produce Sparky McMuffin’s ‘Great American Waffle Search’?” they’d say yes…even though their producers’ duties end with writing a check.
It’s a more-than-moot point anyway, sounds like they make it very clear who owns what… which is good.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Thanks!
What about venues like conventions, where Charter sets up a booth, and the sizzle is running on the table: private or public?
Thanks again!
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Well, I suppose that’s kind of squishy. Technically, it’s public. But it’s not public exhibition for profit in any practical sense, so Mr. Attorney would have a hard time making a case that it’s a violation. I mean, a certain amount of common sense has to apply. Since (I presume) Charter isn’t charging a fee to stand at the booth and it’s not part of a larger trade-show-sponsored exhibit charging a fee, it pretty well falls under promo use.
Again, not a lawyer, etc. But studios and other rights-holders have MUCH bigger fish to fry with rampant piracy, Aerio, HULU, etc., and myriad syndication deals. Local/regional cable promotion and sales is not likely to be on anyone’s radar.
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[Jeff Markgraf] “MUCH bigger fish to fry “
yeah, that’s the thing. Everything seems great. Until the moment it isn’t.
Thanks for your information. It’s been very helpful and reasonable. For me, it seems, I will bug all clips with logo and schedule. It might take a bit of work, but seems right.
Thanks again!
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