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“Bottle” movie – GH4 or A7S?
I think I have stated this before – I teach filmmaking at the high school level. I have a student who graduated two years ago, and instead of going to film school decided to strike out on his own (I won’t comment one way or the other on that issue). He’s an excellent cinematographer, an OK director and editor. Fortunately, he’s paired up with someone who can write, and they have a “bottle movie” they’d like to shoot – 2 characters in a room (living room of an abandoned apartment, two characters in chairs, for about 75 minutes – four scenes in the bathroom, otherwise just the two of them talking. I read the script, it’s more engaging than it sounds). He has come to me for equipment advice, and so that’s where I turn to you all (he is being privately funded by his parents for this little project – suffice to say a decently well-off family, but they’ve privately stated to me they won’t spend a penny more than necessary)
Anyway – pretty standard sized living room (16 x 20 is what they measured). They plan on using 8 point lighting, and their shooting strategy is such – they want to use the same method that Lumet used in 12 Angry Men – start of with short focal lengths and upper perspectives, and as the movie goes on, increase focal length and bring perspective down -shrink the room as the movie goes on, in other words. There will be no handheld work, no dollies (only a gear-based slider) – so basically all tripod.
He cannot decide on a couple of things. He knows he wants to shoot in 4K to an external recorder with monitor. He cannot decide between the GH4 and the A7S. Reasons for indecision: MFT vs Full Frame, the latter allowing for exact focal lengths, no calculation, etc. He also likes the idea of Slog2 and its color grading possibilities. Finally, he cannot decide on prime lenses vs zoom lenses. I’ve told him that a prime will be a sharper image in ether case, though the zoom will offer greater flexibility / choices in terms of his shooting strategy and a slightly softer image. And so for the purposes of this microbudget film (he already has a good computer that can handle 4K in post), considering setting – is the full frame & Slog of the A7s worth the $1,000 over the GH4? I apologize in advance if this question starts any heated arguments of one vs the other. I’ve done a lot of reading by “experts” (who often are schills in disguise it seems), and having had no hands-on experience with either camera (I still work on a 5D Mark II), I turn to you. I’d recommend he rent each one for a weekend with a kit and see which he likes better, but the closest rental house is four hours away.
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37 Replies
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Well I won’t comment on most of this, although I do have opinions about them (which range from “Good for him!” to “Oh, my…” to quietly shaking my head)….
But I will comment on two things….
Primes. Definitely primes. They will look better, be much faster (allowing for easier/faster lighting with much lower levels), and in a setup/situation like this I can think of no compelling reasons at all to shoot zooms.
And lastly…
[Jason Roberts] “I’d recommend he rent each one for a weekend with a kit and see which he likes better, but the closest rental house is four hours away.”
Good advice, but the distance shouldn’t matter. Virtually every pro camera rental house is used to shipping gear all the time, to anywhere and everywhere. I’ve rented camera bodies, lenses, support gear… all shipped. In fact before we bought our own PL lenses we use to regularly rent a superspeed primes set from a camera house about two hours away. They’d put them on a Greyhound bus and we’d pick ’em up (the bus station is only two blocks from our studio, so convenient). The first couple of times I though it was pretty nerve wracking… they fact that they were willing to put a set of glass worth about $100K (in a conveniently-stealable small case, with a handle on it) on a bus (which doesn’t typically attract upscale travelers)… but they do it all the time.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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I don’t get why these kids don’t rent the entire setup just for the duration of the shoot. That’s how the cool kids do it (Businessmen).
Or is the script the excuse for buying a lot of gear that will be re-purposed for other projects year-round?
A Bottle episode, and they wanna play with short DOF, but no budget for any dolly or slider or anything but a tripod? That’s going to be one very static-looking picture. I’d want some kind of motion shot option to work in tightly with faces, since there’s no background to intrude, your actors have to communicate everything with faces and body language in one spot for ninety-odd minutes. This almost demands some dolly work, I’d think.
Have the kids re-watch the original “Little Shop Of Horrors” with the sound turned off, to get an idea of what can be done with a single room.
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I’d be as much (or more) worried about talent on this project… something that weighs so heavy on just two actors constantly on screen is going to require Anthony-Hopkinsesque acting ability to pull it off… or you are going to wind up with something 10x more boring than “My Dinner with Andre.”
And Mark… interesting observation about Little Shop of Horrors. You said “original”…meaning the 1960 Roger Corman version? Worth watching, but I certainly wouldn’t hold that up as any example of fine filmmaking. Now, the ’86 Frank Oz version is fantastic.
And this forces me down memory lane… way back in my wannabe-actor days my very first role (1988) was in a stage production of LSOH, and was one of the most fun things I ever did in my entire life (and I “borrowed” the engineer boots from wardrobe… still have ’em)….
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Mark Suszko] “Or is the script the excuse for buying a lot of gear that will be re-purposed for other projects year-round?”
That was the first question I asked before reading the script. I read the script, and it’s doesn’t strike me as an excuse. I did explain that, if they were going to go with a full-on 4K rig purchased with either of those cameras, I didn’t see getting out of it for less than $10K (tripod, sound equipment, external recorder, follow focus gear, etc).
One of the actors does get out of his chair and move around, the other cannot move around. There’s dramatic purpose to it. I know, I’m being vague, I apologize. An
[Mark Suszko] “This almost demands some dolly work, I’d think.”
They do actually wish to use a gear-based slider, one that can be center mounted on a tripod, so not utterly static.
[Mark Suszko] “I don’t get why these kids don’t rent the entire setup just for the duration of the shoot. That’s how the cool kids do it (Businessmen)”
I checked on the three rental houses closest to us (as I said, four hours away), Sony A7S rents for $150 a day, body only, all three houses (New England). Their schedule calls for two days of camera tests (what they want to accomplish in the bathroom scenes will be a miracle if they can pull it off) and fourteen shooting days – so rental outstrips buying costs at that point. Family is pretty firm on this one – the fun of financiers
[Mark Suszko] “Have the kids re-watch the original “Little Shop Of Horrors” with the sound turned off, to get an idea of what can be done with a single room.
“Believe it or not, I recommended that one! I directed a stage production of that years ago, and I watched the original so many times, had fond memories of it. I also recommended “The Sunset Limited”, “Sleuth”, and “Phone Booth”.
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[Todd Terry] “‘d be as much (or more) worried about talent on this project… something that weighs so heavy on just two actors constantly on screen is going to require Anthony-Hopkinsesque acting ability to pull it off… or you are going to wind up with something 10x more boring than “My Dinner with Andre.””
I think we spent almost five straight hours talking about this very problem. My other career is acting / directing stage stuff. Six years ago I played the lead in “Talk Radio”, and described the experience for having to deliver a performance sitting behind a desk and wearing aviator sungalsses for an hour forty five minutes – and having 70 percent of the lines – as the most mentally grueling experience of my life. If you know the play or the movie – the mental breakdown that Barry has at the climax of the play? Yeah, I didn’t have to “fake” that too hard when I did it, I was at the point of nervous exhaustion every night from sheer intensity. And their emotional climax – it’s a whopper to pull off, and they want to shoot in sequence – and I could not imagine delivering what the script calls for on the 14th day. Just to give you reference – they said their ideal Hollywood actors would be Paul Giamatti (guy who doesn’t move) and Paul Dano (guy who does move, and there needs to be a significant age difference between the two). I can the Hopkinese idea – I will maintain “Remains of the Day” is two year’s worth of acting master classes in two hours.
They don’t have actors cast yet – they want to do open call / auditions and are willing to pay scale, which means they better pray for some kind of unseen miracle to come out of local talent.
And goddamit, great pic – as a younger man I really wanted to play The Dentist. A little too much grey in my hair and a little less swagger in my step now to make it believable.
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[Jason Roberts] “…and they want to shoot in sequence…”
Which is technically crazy, but from an actor’s standpoint isn’t a bad idea. Being his first movie, John Hughes shot The Breakfast Club in sequence because, unbelievably, he didn’t know you didn’t have to do that. Which did make for a crazy shoot for the crew, but allowed for perfect character growth for the actors… so in this case it might not be a bad idea.
And yes, I think Hopkins is our finest living actor. I would gladly give a year’s salary just to sharpen his pencils for a week. His ability stuns me.
[Jason Roberts] “as a younger man I really wanted to play The Dentist.”
Yep, as I said, most fun I ever had. It’s really the perfect supporting role, because it can totally steal the show yet you’re really only working about 15 minutes, and napping in the dressing room the rest of the time. I got to ride a motorcycle on stage (which always cranked, thank God), sing (I’m really more of a “vocal stylist”), dance (much like the singing), wear lots of leather, slap Audrey around, rough up my best friend who happened to be Seymour, die a great death night after night, and be eaten by Audrey II. Oh, and sometimes made kids in the front rows cry. What actor could ask for more??
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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And oh… meant to mention… if they are willing to pay (especially if willing to pay scale), they need to submit a casting call to Breakdown Services/Breakdown Express. We’ve started using them directly instead of casting agents for commercial projects. I’ll put out a casting call, they take care of sending the breakdowns to all appropriate talent agents within your part of the country (or beyond), and you get in headshots/resumes/reels. You can then request custom auditions for whomever you like.
Best thing about it (besides being free) is that it is fast. When I put out casting calls myself through the usual channels, it usually takes several days for auditionees to filter in. If I send a casting call to Breakdown Express, I’ll usually have anywhere from 100 to 200 submissions within an hour or two. They jump right on distributing the breakdown, and since most agencies use them and are constantly checking them (or being alerted), the agents typically immediately make their appropriate submissions. Works great.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Todd Terry] “Which is technically crazy, but from an actor’s standpoint isn’t a bad idea. Being his first movie, John Hughes shot The Breakfast Club in sequence because, unbelievably, he didn’t know you didn’t have to do that. Which did make for a crazy shoot for the crew, but allowed for perfect character growth for the actors… so in this case it might not be a bad idea.”
You know, I love it when a director doesn’t “know any better”, and amazing stuff happens as a result(Citizen Kane, anyone?). That shooting in sequence did allow the actors to improvise the whole “why are you in detention” sequence, which may have had a few moments that were a little too on the nose, but goddamn if there aren’t some of the most honest moments about being a teenager ever captured on film in that sequence. We have talked about the in sequence idea for this project, and it may be the only way to go because of the nature of the conflict and its climax.
[Todd Terry] “And yes, I think Hopkins is our finest living actor. I would gladly give a year’s salary just to sharpen his pencils for a week. His ability stuns me.
“Can you imagine being Bryan Cranston when he got that letter from Hopkins about Breaking Bad? If I had been Cranston, I would have framed that sucker and retired immediately – because where the hell do you go from there?
And sorry to all Cinematographers that this has turned into an acting discussion. Well, not really – after all, the performance can be the greatest in the world, but if it’s not filmed properly, it won’t work. Think of “Silence of the Lambs” without those straight-on closeups of Foster and Hopkins in the jail – I think done with a 50mm lens to make it almost perfect eye-like perspective, like you were right in their face. Demme and Fujimoto made such a brilliant choice with those shots – Hopkins staring directly at you with eyes of evil. I’m shivering thinking of what it must have been like to look through a viewfinder for a full day looking at that facial expression.
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Yes those almost-straight-on closeups in “Lambs” are bone-chilling. Tak is one of my favorite (and I think under-appreciated) cinematographers. He had a little flag juuuuuust off the lens axis for his actors’ eyelines in those shots. I just re-watched The Sixth Sense a couple of nights ago… just beautiful. And I take some joy in that he started as a DP doing commercials. His stuff is so beautiful.
And Hopkins’ Lecter is, like the Dentist in LSOH, one of those total-show-stealers. Hard to believe he has less than 15 minutes of screen time in it.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Play the scene of when Clarice first meets Lecter, and listen on headphones, eyes closed. The sound design and scoring that builds the suspense and fear is some of the greatest ever done. This amateur movie is going to need very good audio, or even good camerawork will fall flat.
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