Blackmagic Cinema Camera – edit workflow using 12 bit RAW CinemaDNG

[Rick Lang]

[Pat Horridge] “Can Resolve read and understand an FCPX or Avid color correction effect? No point baking them in by rendering if you then link the sequence back to the RAW media.”

Pat, does this answer your question? From
https://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/workflow/

Multi track XML Support
Move your projects between your favorite NLE software and DaVinci Resolve and add professional color correction to your edit! DaVinci can be used on set, to grade shots before the edit, or after to grade and re-render the final master in a deeper bit depth. DaVinci supports XML import and export from Final Cut Pro X and any color grades in Final Cut Pro become DaVinci grades once imported. DaVinci Resolve also supports Final Cut Pro 7, Adobe Premiere Pro and also Avid AAF!

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB

[Pat Horridge]

Ah an RTFM moment:-)

Yet tocomplete testing on our system.
But is there a list of exactly whats supported in an Avid AAF?
Lessinterested in FCPLegacy as that will die off over the next year or so and We’ve seen exactly 0 FCPX interest or work.
PPRO may make a showing but it’s an improvement to Avid dated color correction that Resolve looks interesting.
We have a nice workflowroute via our DS but DS development isn’t a quick thing…

Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
VET
Production Editing Digital Media Design DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
http://www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US

[Rick Lang]

[Pat Horridge] “But is there a list of exactly whats supported in an Avid AAF?”

i think our knowledge of the Avid AAF and FCPX XML colour correction support details (and any gotchas) will wait for the final release of DaVinci Resolve 9.0 software and the manual that we’ll need to read. So many videos to watch from NAB on this camera so understandable it’s difficult to catch everything now!

8^)

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB

[Pat Horridge]

I can appreciate that but there is a lot of interest from Avid users.
There’s been a massive move from FCP to Avid and from the FCP side round tripping via color is very similar to Avid round tripping to Resolve. But only if it works.
IF BM don’t ensure it’s seemless and the “gotchas” well covered users will get frustrated and seek other solutions of which there a number.
It’s only a limited window of oppertunity to grab that market if BM consider it of value.

Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
VET
Production Editing Digital Media Design DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
http://www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US

[Rick Lang]

Juan, thinking about the large size of the CinemaDNG files and based on comments in this thread:
https://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?82-Shooting-RAW-or-10-bit-4-2-2-Compressed/page11

Specifically:
[2012-05-04] 12:10 PM
“Originally Posted by Note Suwanchote
i haven’t checked this but we could shoot in uncompressed dng and convert to cineform raw?
We are enabling that workflow. You can do it today will a shell to batch CinemaDNG files, but we are making it much easier.

[2012-05-04] 05:09 PM
CineForm RAW encoding is already faster than the SSD I/O, no GPU acceleration required.

David Newman
Sr. Dir. Software Eng. GoPro (a.k.a CTO, CineForm)”

I’m thinking this might be a reasonable workflow for those who want to save space:

Blackmagic Cinema Camera using CinemaRAW
-> convert to Cineform RAW using some utility or plug-ins to be supplied by GoPro
-> use the Cineform RAW in DaVinci Resolve for quick grade for dailies
-> render 709 for FCPX for final edit using a ProRes proxy
-> XML from FCPX back to Resolve for conform and final grade using Cineform RAW files
-> render desired final forms for distribution.

One user on BMCuser suggested BlackMagic Design should record to Cineform RAW directly since it’s lossless. This viability of this proposed workflow also assumes the metadata will be kept throughout the various steps.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB

[Juan Salvo]

Only problem with that workflow is 1 that it’s an extra step with no benefit other than a bit of space savings and the downside of then having to buy a license for CF, and 2 you’d have potential issues with metadata.

Hard drives space is cheap, processing time and cineform licenses cost money.

I suppose if you wanted to archive all of your raw material long term… or already had a workflow based around CF this would probably work.

I think the workflow that will prevail will be the simplest one.

– Open DNG in Resolve & render to prores with standard 709 LUT
– edit in NLE of choice
– send project back to resolve to conform from DNG… or just finish in NLE if color is not an issue.
– ?
– profit

I’m sure BMD will have a detailed PDF with the recommended workflow around the release of the camera. Everything until then is speculation, but fun any way. 😉

Online Editor | Colorist | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

https://JuanSalvo.com

[Rick Lang]

Thanks, Juan. You’re probably right. I guess I was hoping the conversion to CineformRAW would be a utility priced separately from GoPro’s edit software. But I notice others also assume it will require one to license their own editor. Fair enough.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB

[Sunil Sanjan]

Hello All,

I concluded/gathered few inputs/facts and points over BMD reviews. Kindly help in explaining the doubts as mentioned below:

I read that BMD is better than:5Dmk2, GH2 and fs100 ? Can anyone explain the difference ?

If Cant afford scarlet or EPIC or a C300, Can go for BMD ? means these are yet better than BMD if price is not a issue?

Read that Arri Alexa has same sensor as BMD ? Is it True? What difference it will make for Arri Alexa ?

I read it is faster to use than a h.264 style camera, because you’re shooting native ProRes and the files can be used right away without the messy transcoding steps. Is it good option to use file directly ? What difference it makes if Prores is not used beside time and messy steps ?

Read that When you’re shooting RAW, every frame is a DNG image file. That means you can open them in Photoshop, and presumably everything else ADOBE like After Effects. What is major advantage of this ?

Read that can shoot RAW and get everything, or you can shoot Pro Res and get either a LOG image that gets you almost everything, or a REC709 that gets you pretty great looking pictures that can be used right out of the camera. Does this mean need not to work on these pictures ?

Read that SSD’s are reliable, relatively cheap for the performance they offer and they are very readily available. As a consumer item, their costs are on a constant downward trajectory too. What are other Pros and cons of SSD ?

Read that Sensor Size very similar to the NIKON 1 which is 13.2 x 8.8. BMD is 15.6 x 8.8 (15.6 sounds like Diagonal). Does this difference makes any major impact ?

This means sensor size Closer to m4/3 ? Right?

It means we can use wide m4/3 lenses. What are the wide m4/3 lenses avaibale in market which will suit best for BMD ?

Read that the sigma 8-16mm ef-s mount rectilinear lens will give you about 18-37mm (35mm equivalent coverage) This is based on a 2.3x crop factor I’ve read elsewhere. Not sure if that’s accurate. How far is this true ?

Read that the Canon 10-22 EF-S zoom translates to 15mm-33mm on the BMD. How far is this true ?

Read that 16mm Lenses won’t cover the sensor size? Still doubt on this point ? If so why?

Also what about Audio quality on this BMD camera? What are audio options for BMD ?

It will be great if you guys explain these points.

Best Regards,
Sunil Sanjan

[Rick Lang]

[Sunil Sanjan] “I read that BMD is better than:5Dmk2, GH2 and fs100 ? Can anyone explain the difference ?
“

You need to read the manufacturer’s online product information and judge which is better related to your own needs and priorities. Each camera can have it’s strengths and weaknesses related to your needs.

[Sunil Sanjan] “If Cant afford scarlet or EPIC or a C300, Can go for BMD ? means these are yet better than BMD if price is not a issue?
“

Probably true if price was no object but if you like your quality to be acquired with relative ease and simplicity, the BMCC is best.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that Arri Alexa has same sensor as BMD ? Is it True? What difference it will make for Arri Alexa ?
“

Not true.

[Sunil Sanjan] “I read it is faster to use than a h.264 style camera, because you’re shooting native ProRes and the files can be used right away without the messy transcoding steps. Is it good option to use file directly ? What difference it makes if Prores is not used beside time and messy steps ?
“

Messy steps? Be serious! You use ProRes or DNxHD or RAW for higher quality than H.264, but if you’re final output (e.g. web video) doesn’t require the quality, then certainly the BMCC is not the camera you want.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that When you’re shooting RAW, every frame is a DNG image file. That means you can open them in Photoshop, and presumably everything else ADOBE like After Effects. What is major advantage of this ?
“

Well, being able to work with a single DNG file from the video stream can have many creative uses as well as allowing you to Photoshop an image easily that you could use for promotion of the video.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that can shoot RAW and get everything, or you can shoot Pro Res and get either a LOG image that gets you almost everything, or a REC709 that gets you pretty great looking pictures that can be used right out of the camera. Does this mean need not to work on these pictures ?
“

No, you still need to work on the video in all areas of creating a logged, edited, graded, finished product regardless of the quality of the codec.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that SSD’s are reliable, relatively cheap for the performance they offer and they are very readily available. As a consumer item, their costs are on a constant downward trajectory too. What are other Pros and cons of SSD ?
“

Pro: non-proprietary, large capacity for long recording sessions, quiet operation, reliable until it breaks, if certified by vendor for their device/camera/product will work like a charm with very high transfer rates, not tied to a vendors proprietary and potentially expensive media, etc.
Con:moderately expensive, expensive if it breaks, doesn’t provide permanent backup like tape does, if not certified by a vendor for their product will be a gamble you don’t want to lose, etc.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that Sensor Size very similar to the NIKON 1 which is 13.2 x 8.8. BMD is 15.6 x 8.8 (15.6 sounds like Diagonal). Does this difference makes any major impact ?
“

Not major, but can impact the focal length of lenses you prefer to use as the field-of-view is different.

[Sunil Sanjan] “This means sensor size Closer to m4/3 ? Right?
“

Close is irrelevant at this point as micro four-thirds mount lenses won’t be supported in the BMCC.

[Sunil Sanjan] “It means we can use wide m4/3 lenses. What are the wide m4/3 lenses avaibale in market which will suit best for BMD ?
“

See previous response.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that the sigma 8-16mm ef-s mount rectilinear lens will give you about 18-37mm (35mm equivalent coverage) This is based on a 2.3x crop factor I’ve read elsewhere. Not sure if that’s accurate. How far is this true ?
“

That’s the generally accepted crop factor rounded to one decimal point. Remember you should purchase a lens compatible with the Canon EF (or Zeiss ZE) mount.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that the Canon 10-22 EF-S zoom translates to 15mm-33mm on the BMD. How far is this true ?
“

Not true as far as I know as that crop factor would only be 1.5. If I recall correctly, 1.5 is the crop factor for Nikon’s version of the AFS-C sensor, 1.6 is the Canon AFS-C sensor crop factor. I could be wrong as I’ve only used a full-frame Nikon. The EF-S lens’ focal length assumes a 35mm full-frame camera. Do the math with the true crop factor in the previous comment.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Read that 16mm Lenses won’t cover the sensor size? Still doubt on this point ? If so why?
“

If you mean a lens specifically limited to emulate 16mm film in a digital sensor, the focus circle will be too small to cover the larger sensor on the BMCC. Not to mention the lens won’t mount on the BMCC.

[Sunil Sanjan] “Also what about Audio quality on this BMD camera? What are audio options for BMD ?
“

Audio quality depends on many factors. Audio 1/4” jack inputs support balanced mics or line-in (no phantom power though) or use a built-in mono microphone. Monitor sound levels with headphones. The camera supports 24-bit four-channel audio at 48kHz via SDI out. Review the specs:
https://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/techspecs/

[Sunil Sanjan] “It will be great if you guys explain these points.
“

My pleasure, hope I’ve been accurate. Here’s a link to a great creative community dedicated to the BMCC. You can read thousands of messages about this eagerly-anticipated, stunning and revolutionary camera:
https://www.bmcuser.com/

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB

[Sunil Sanjan]

Thanks a ton Rick for detailed explanation and your valuable inputs.

Sorry to bother you again. What is this “rolling shutter” issue with BMD cinema camera, I read in many reviews. Would love to have detailed explanation on this if any at your end. Is it a major draw back ? How it is going to affect ? Thanks again in advance for your valuable inputs on this doubt.

Best Regards,
Sunil Sanjan