Best route to take editing DV PAL Anamorphic

[David Roth weiss]

[Dave Wilson] “I have read other people’s advise on the web and a common suggestion is to go into the sequence settings and “just change the codec to Apple ProRes”. Well this didn’t solve my problem at all, it made it worse because as well as still having poor titles/graphics, now the footage is squished to 4:3 because obviously the pixel aspect ratio isn’t right. Just to make anyone reading this aware, I am exporting as a Quicktime Movie with current settings.”

Sorry Dave, but you’re obviously doing something wrong, because if you’re editing in a proper PAL DV anamorphic timeline and you simply change the Compressor in Sequence>>Settings to to ProRes 422, it has no impact on pixel dimensions or pixel aspect.

And, ProRes HQ is way overkill for anything originated on DV.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

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[Nick Meyers]

as David says,
simply changing the codec should have worked,
you must have changed to a different sequence preset, and NOT chosen anamorphic one.
or maybe you copy/pasted your timeline contents into a new sequence that was not anamorphic.

nick

[Dave Wilson]

Setting my sequence to DV PAL Anamorphic 48Khz gives me this in sequence settings…

Frame Size: 720 x 576 CCIR 601 / DV PAL (5:4)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: PAL – CCIR 601 (720 x 576) Anamorphic 16:9
Field Dominance: Lower (Even)
Editing Timebase; 25
Compressor: DV – PAL
Quality: 100%

I have not changed anything within Final Cut Pro’s settings other than the locations for files to be saved (Capture scratch, Render folder etc).
When I said I had tried changing the sequence codec to Apple ProRes and the video and gone to 4:3, I meant to say upon export (Export>QuickTime Movie>Current Settings). The video does remain as 16:9 in Final Cut.

So if all was working as normal, should changing the sequence’s codec to for example Apple ProRes solve my titles/graphics problems? Any other ideas to what may be causing my problems?

Thanks for the help so far.

[Nick Meyers]

ah, all is clear.
even your original DVPAL would look squished on export.

as your final version is for the web, you might be best to work in that larger sequence size.

yes, ProRes should handle graphics better that DV.

when working at Standard Def, i found adding the flicker filter set to max to text helped a lot.
actuary, the filter i used was the free “Blend Fields” filer from Too Much Too Soon,
but the flicker filter set to max does the same thing, i believe.

as you are making product for the web, de-interlacing may also be the way to go.

i don’t think you would get good results setting your sequences to Fields = None (but you should try that)
the best tool for de-interlaceing i found was the Nattress Smart De-interlace plugin
better than the FCP filters.

nick

[Michael Gissing]

Just changing the sequence codec to ProRes would leave the fields as lower which is wrong for PAL SD. I recommend you change your easy setup to ProRes 422 720 x 576 anamorphic and then copy paste the final sequence into that new timeline. This will also make FCP automatically add the shift fields filter.

[David Roth weiss]

[Michael Gissing] “Just changing the sequence codec to ProRes would leave the fields as lower which is wrong for PAL SD.”

Michael,

You’re actually discussing two things as one here… Dave does have an issue, in that his field order is set incorrectly, but that is a totally separate matter from changing the codec. He should have been upper field dominant from the get go and how he managed to set it “lower” is something that we should be asking him.

Apart from that, changing the compressor to ProRes in Sequence>>Settings is still his best bet, and he can change the the filed dominance setting at that time to upper as well, before re-rendering the sequence. From that point on, any time he exports, using Export>QT Movie, he will export a proper ProRes 422 file.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

Don’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.

[Michael Gissing]

[David Roth Weiss] ” He should have been upper field dominant from the get go and how he managed to set it “lower” is something that we should be asking him.”

Not so. PAL DV codec is lower field. It is the only PAL codec that is so it matters how you change the sequence codec. My suggestion to copy paste allows the sequence fields to be set correctly plus FCP will auto apply the shift fields filter on all lower field codec footage.

The issue here is to take a timeline and change the sequence codec to better render the graphics elements. Just changing the codec without addressing fields with the shift fields filter will create further issues. As the footage is for the web he should also consider deinterlacing in compressor.

[Jason Porthouse]

I do this regularly when I come across edits for material acquired on DV. My workflow is similar to Michaels…

Cut your programme in DV PAL Anamorphic timeline as you have done. Then, create a new timeline. Load an easy setup (accessed in Sequence Settings) for ProRes PAL anamorphic – should be 720×576, Upper Field First, and make sure the Anamorphic checkbox is ticked. You can then cut and paste your edit from the DV timeline into the Pro Res one. This should ensure that the Shift Fields filter is applied, and the geometry of each shot should be the same.

Don’t go down the route of altering sequence size – your making it 1024×576 is a fudge that will lead to problems later – it’s a non-standard size that will probably lead to playback issues.

HTH

Jason

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[Dave Wilson]

Thanks for everyone’s help so far.

Ok so I copied my entire project from the DV PAL sequence to a new Apple ProRes sequence with these settings…

Frame Size: 720 x 576 CCIR 601 / DV PAL (5:4)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: PAL – CCIR 601 (720 x 576) Anamorphic 16:9
Field Dominance: Upper (odd)
Editing Timebase; 25
Compressor: Apple ProRes
Quality: 100%

I rendered the sequence. Played back at 16:9 in the viewer. Exported as a QuickTime Movie with current settings and it gave me a 4:3 file. The graphics are looking the same as DV codec too 🙁

[Nick Meyers]

yes, that’s what anamorphic is
it is 4/3 that gets stretched on display to 16/9 (or wider in the case of film)

you can make quicktime stretch the image out,
or you can convert it to some other frame size, which you may well be doing as part of your web deliverables.

but then you’ll be stretching your graphics.
maybe that will be noticeable, maybe not.

Jason’s advice not to alter the frame size may be wrong for you, as you are delivering for the web.
if you are creating something for SDTV, then 4/3 anamorphic the way

“The graphics are looking the same as DV codec too”

did you use the filters i suggested?
where are these graphics being created?

nick