Before going to HD, I have a few questions

[Shane Ross]

[John Beck] “Generally, what would be the maximum number of minutes I could expect to get with a 60 min SD tape shooting in 1080P or 720P?”

The tape doesn’t record HD formats, only DV. The only way to record HD on that camera is with either P2 cards or a Firestore hard drive.

[John Beck] “when editing for output to SD DVD, is there a very noticable difference in resoluiton using an the HVX 200 as opposed to using an SD camera like Sony VX2200 or or Panasonic 100B”

Yes…there is a difference. Looks better for sure.

[John Beck] “Would it be noticable to a client that a particular shoot was done with the HVX 200 as opposed to an SD camera?”

Depends on the client. But yeah, it would be pretty noticable. No DV compression to deal with…when you shoot HD. But again, the tape drive only shoots DV.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[John Beck]

Shane,

Thanks a bunch! I guess I was really off base assuming that the DVC tape would just run faster–not sure why that would not work though–if it had been designed that way.

By the way, for a 30 minutes of recording, what would be the average space needed if one has a fire wire connection to the HCX?

Thanks a bunch for the information.

[Shane Ross]

That all depends on the format you shoot…the camera shoots MANY formats. 720p at 23.98 is 22GB per hour. 1080i60 at 30fps is 59GB per hour.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Rennie Klymyk]

[John Beck] ” I guess I was really off base assuming that the DVC tape would just run faster–not sure why that would not work though–if it had been designed that way. “

The reason we are able to shoot in HD for a $6000.00 investment is because there are no HD heads and tape mechanism. HD heads and tape transport systems make up about $12,000.00 of the cost of any HD camera that records to tape. Before P2 came along HD cameras cost $60,000.00. (and you had to buy a deck!).

“thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star” ……Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[John Beck]

Rennie,

Thanks for the information regarding the technical challenges recording HD to tape. I had forgotten how demanding band-width requirements are for tape. I guess we could think back on the VHS days when video was barely able to keep up with NTSC resolution using tape that was 1/2″ wide.

I wonder however, if video shot using DVC tape with the HVX 200 acually looks better than video shot with say a DVX 100B.

[Rennie Klymyk]

The DXX 100B is a fine camera but the HVX has native 16:9 chips which is future proof. Also once you buy a couple of P2 Cards you are ready for a whole new world. I’m still getting by with 1 P2 card. If you know any buddies that shoot P2 in your area you can set up a loaner system which is great for this media and if you aren’t shooting every day yourselves and can do a bit of scheduling between colleagues.

“thou can not stir a flower without crumbling a star” ……Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[John Beck]

Great idea..thanks!!

[Todd Reid]

ALSO, you can rent P2 cards. (google to find one in your area)

They are still pretty expensive to rent, but may get you by if you require HD immediately.
Then once you do a few gigs in HD, you may be able to pay for a P2 card.

Are there any P2 cards on eBay?

I’ve been editing footage shot with those camera on P2 cards for over a year now and one thing I can tell you from an editors point of view…..learn the new camera! It is very easy to shoot bad looking hd video without proper setup of camera, proper focus (with focus assist), painting of camera, proper light etc. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you can shoot as you always have.
I still spend a lot of time in color correction land, but my constant complaining to the photogs have done some good. Their footage is starting to improve overall. It was a long learning process for both me and them. Almost there, and now they tell me they are upgrading (probably to the HVX2000). woo hoo!

[John Beck]

Todd,

Your comments are most interesting. I realize that there has to be some light sensitivity issues with HD. Already Panasonic has address some of this in the A model but what is one stop? It’s not a show stopper but an indication of the challenge of the band-width and sensitivity. Not sure I would pay to acquire the A model if I had a first eddtion HVX 200.

What I very interested in is your commnent about color correction and focus assist. That is both surprising and disappointing. I was hoping that neither would be a more exaggerated in HD but your experience tells you otherwise. Is the post editing a lot different than with SD? Other than the file size, are there other challenges to the workflow in post similar to what you pointed out with CC?

Would really like to discuss further.

[Todd Reid]

Don’t take my comments as horror stories to keep you from making the jump. I merely wanted to give you a few things to consider once you got your new setup, to make sure you are creating pretty pictures. Its almost always still going to look better than sd, but there are new set of challenges.

In my experience, an HD camera in the hands of someone used to sd, produced a lot more out of focus footage than I’d like. I was on a couple of the first shoots, with my clients, and I saw first hand, how the shot looked in focus in the viewfinder, but when we put the camera into focus assist mode (not sure of the actual name) or saw it in the edit suite, we saw that it was far from perfect focus. This was a quick lesson, cause after several shots that were too blurry, photogs used focus assist more, and began learning to eyeball it.

Also, in regards to lighting, it is such and art form in itself, but add the extra resolution and real-estate on screen for hd, and I was a bit surprised how many shots were poorly lit. This also could be attributed to bad lighting in the field. As an editor, I usually color correct, out of sport, cause footage can, almost always, look better.

Everything amounts to growing pains, and same, but slightly different phenomenon.
Just my humble opinion.

Post editing isn’t majorly different, but with the addition of several more HD codecs and frame rates, aspect ratios, on and on and on. It defenitely keeps me on my toes, much more than when I was editing sd. Far more to worry about than my old linear suite edit days.

hope this helps

If you have specific questions, ask, that is why I love this forum so much.