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Background processes are an impediment to starting the edit
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[Oliver Peters] “Isn’t it more helpful to discuss the actual technical issues involved, rather than merely to throw out random positive, but unrelated comments?”
Sure. But for YEARS This forum has been awash in constant NEGATIVE but often (IMO) un-related to reality comments about X. So why is THIS the point when we need to change the rules?
When forum newbies still arrive with what seems to be a strong desire to trash every little element of X because it makes them uncomfortable, so why NOT push back?
If the X debate had been mostly factual – I’d have zero issues with it. But it’s going to be hard to argue against the fact that the anti-X arguments are STILL as much waged on ignorance and angst as fact in the industry overall.
In some of the discussion places I hang out – I can guarantee that virtually EVERY discussion about X I engage in, a handful of working editors will bring up “the botched launch”, and Apple “abandoning the professionals” six years ago.
Ask what they thought (at the time) about about the keywording, its innovative share system, how magnetism speeds 3-point edits, Auditions, or a half dozen other aspects of 1.0 and they don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
Then you ask them if they like proxy editing or skimming – they light up – and scowl when you let them know X had that stuff six years ago.
And if you mention Roles, Pro Codec support, Red 8K workflows – they just mutter that nobody “serious” (meaning none of the people like them, of course) would ever think of using X still today – cuz it’s just so lame…
So I stand by my strategy.
Total diss met with total praise. More balanced questions met with more balanced responses.
So if someone starts a thread implying that X FAILS in some way – and I think there is another balancing interpretation, you’ll hear it.
Past that, explanations and shared expertise when I think I can help.
Simple really.
????
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Oliver Peters] “So what you are acknowledging is that this setting in the import window is essentially useless, since all of the tracks – silent or not – still have to be analyzed.”
Like much of X, import options are contextual.
So the “import window” controls more or less – depending on the incoming configuration, codec, wrapper and file types it is presented.
You know that.
If a file has 8 audio tracks muxed in the digital file, like for example a MultiCam BlackMagic Terrenex/Atom output, I know of NO system that will unpack that and let you pick and choose your audio tracks for import.
As you also know well, Oliver, EACH hardware manufacturer controls how their digital streams flow and are packetized.
So “useless” for one editor – becomes “mission critical” for another.
Simple as that.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “Sure. But for YEARS This forum has been awash in constant NEGATIVE but often (IMO) un-related to reality comments about X. So why is THIS the point when we need to change the rules?”
No offense, but it sounds to me like you are stuck in the past. I think the rest of us have moved very far past it at this point. Plus, newbies probably don’t even go to the effort of looking past the first or second page of any of these forums.
[Bill Davis] “In some of the discussion places I hang out – I can guarantee that virtually EVERY discussion about X I engage in, a handful of working editors will bring up “the botched launch”, and Apple “abandoning the professionals” six years ago. “
I thought you hung out in places that were more pro-X than here. ☺
[Bill Davis] “So if someone starts a thread implying that X FAILS in some way – and I think there is another balancing interpretation, you’ll hear it. “
Except that your response didn’t relate in the least bit to the topic. And the issue has been corroborated by several others. So it’s clearly a real problem. Your response was about organizational workflow and speeding up the efficiency of the edit. The actual problem is system performance during the phase of media import.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Bill Davis] “So the “import window” controls more or less – depending on the incoming configuration, codec, wrapper and file types it is presented.
You know that. “Actually, no. On the face of it, I don’t understand what you are trying to say in this sentence.
[Bill Davis] “I know of NO system that will unpack that and let you pick and choose your audio tracks for import.”
I agree, however, that’s not what the import window dialogue implies. But I guess, yes, if it’s part of the “analyze and fix” section it’s an after-import function. One would think that analysis would happen before the file is available to be used, but obviously not. I just feel than an answer spelling that out would be more helpful than another FCPX sales pitch. Like others mentioned to cancel out of background functions and to turn off browser waveforms. Those suggestion do, in fact, help.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Bill Davis] “Simple really.”
Except you talk right past the very people using it, that like using it, and want to make it better. Instead of commiseration, we get a lesson on how the extra special database needs to ‘warm up’ before it works quickly? If you think of this particular forum as a professional to professional discussion, and not a total dis fest, then it’s OK to air grievances and swap stories, even if the very tool or machine that we use is discussed and picked apart.
To use an ever present, total totality, and awesome car analogy:
If a bunch of experienced Mercedes mechanics get together, they might wonder why the late model Mercedes exhibits a weird behavior immediately after startup. Conceivably, those experienced mechanics may swap stories and ponder together as a group of professionals, theoretical reasons why Mercedes Inc, the very car company that they build a business around, would design a part or set the computer to limit how fast you can go right after you start the car. Another Mercedes mechanic (you) comes in and says, it takes two days to properly warm up a Mercedes before you can go driving. Would that help a new Mercedes mechanic that joins this discussion, to feel better about being a new Mercedes mechanic?
To be clear, I don’t think we are “totally dissing” FCPX or Apple. We just want the fast car to go faster as soon as we turn the key and we are trying to figure out the issue.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Would that help a new Mercedes mechanic that joins this discussion, to feel better about being a new Mercedes mechanic?”
Maybe that’s my issue.
It feels exactly like you describe. A few mechanics huddled around the coffee machine shooting the s**t with the same old car club buddies.
What this place isn’t doing is attracting much of the new X talent springing up globally. .
There are plenty of competing forums for X, and actually most of the ones I spend most of my time in nowadays attract FAR, far, far more professional editors interested in X than typically appear here. That includes the public as well as private sites.
Heck, in one just today, someone asked a pretty complex workflow related question about a popular piece of X related software – and the owner of the company that sells it popped in to answer questions from the dozen interested parties who were participating in the discussion.
It just bums me out that instead of this, my traditional longtime FCP X forum, following X’s robust ongoing growth – it’s more likely morphing into that neighborhood garage that only the locals much care about.
By rights we could have dozens or even hundreds of new voices participating here.
But we don’t.
Oh well.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Oliver Peters] “Actually, no. On the face of it, I don’t understand what you are trying to say in this sentence.”
Merely that if X recognizes the volume structure and codec of an import candidate – it lets you pre edit via selection before you import – IF the source volume is one X can parse.
If it doesn’t, then you can be constrained to capturing entire whole files as you noted, but it’s conditional.
Right volume structure, you can do targeted footage “pruning” on import. Unsupported volume structure, and all you can do is grab the whole digital enchilada.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “It just bums me out that instead of this, my traditional longtime FCP X forum, following X’s robust ongoing growth – it’s more likely morphing into that neighborhood garage that only the locals much care about.
By rights we could have dozens or even hundreds of new voices participating here.
“Having read many of the other forums, apart from the “invite only” ones that only true FCPX believers get invited to, I have to say I’m pretty happy with what goes on here. The only thing that grates really is your constant whingeing about the content of the forum! perhaps it’s time you moved on for good, then you wouldn’t be so “bummed out” about it.
There’s plenty of good discussion both FCPX and non-FCPX related that goes on here, I think you just choose to ONLY concentrate on any posts that point out areas where FCPX could be improved or any slight criticism of it. You also seem to still be referencing the sort of comments that simply don’t happen here anymore.
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[Bill Davis] “Right volume structure, you can do targeted footage “pruning” on import. Unsupported volume structure, and all you can do is grab the whole digital enchilada”
I’m sorry to be obtuse, but that answer is even more confusing than the earlier one. It also appears to contradict what you said before. My take now is that a file is imported and THEN analysed. In that analysis a waveform cache is created and silent tracks are hidden, but not removed. This all happens AFTER the file is actually imported – either an actual import/copy or just a link. Analysis doesn’t actually happen before or during import.
And BTW – what do you mean by volume structure? We’re talking about media files from an internal or external drive. For example, Alexa ProRes files that have been cooied to a RAID first before importing.
Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Oliver Peters] “My take now is that a file is imported and THEN analysed.”
The analysis stage is optional and user triggered.
[Oliver Peters] “In that analysis a waveform cache is created and silent tracks are hidden, but not removed. This all happens AFTER the file is actually imported – either an actual import/copy or just a link. Analysis doesn’t actually happen before or during import.”
The “import” process as I understand it in x is composed of two “stages”. First, the metadata is grabbed which makes pure metadata manipulation editing possible. This enables the “get to work NOW” aspects of X.
Concurrently, the digital footage data is copied in. That process is subject to user decision forks, depending on whether it’s managed, or referenced, local or remote.
But regardless, eventually a cohesive “pool” (or “pools” if you’re doing optimized or proxy) of sequestered digital content is created.
It is in how you elect to create these – that I was discussing.
You can create a pool of a single entire card volume. Or, if your footage storage media has a volume structure X understands, you can limit the digitalization to importing only a subsection of the whole storage volume that you specify at time of import.
Is that clearer?
Whether waveform generation applies to everything, or just SOME things – is entirely dependent on the POOL X sees that the user specifies for import.
Basically, in your workflow – are you presented with the “interim stage” of being able to click on a card file – and RANGE SELECT only what you WISH to import – or are you constrained by the “volume structure” of your footage type, so you are just having to grab EVERYTHING as a video file with a dozen audio files.
The answer has a ton to do with the amount of work you’ll have to do later.
But in NEITHER is it possible to extract only certain audio tracks.
And as I understand it, this applies to ALL NLEs – not just X.
Correct me if you think I’m wrong and let me know what system actually allows you to “break into” modern digital video storage volumes and carve out specific digital things like “channels” from during the ingest process.
That would be awesome. But I’ve never heard of any system that can do that.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.
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