Back-up options?

[Shane Ross]

For backing up the project file:

I keep the main file on the system drive. I back up nightly to the Media drive and to a thumb drive.

For backing up Media:

I have a RAID array that I store my media on that I use for editing, then a less expensive drive array that I back up all my media to. It can be a firewire drive or set of drives, or cheap RAID array. This way, if you lose the media, you have a back up.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Bbalser]

Traditional data backup tape drives are still the most bullet proof and reliable backup method, giving you more GB for your buck.

Toast 8 can backup to DVDs, but you’ll probably use a ton of DVDs.

You can also back up to a dedicated backup drive.

Since I now use P2, I’m shopping for a good DLT drive. Again, like I stated before, the most reliable and most space for your buck.

I base this on 20 years of being an IT Engineer, and what I’ve seen work and fail in hundredes of Enterprize Level systems from Canada to Puerto Rico and all points between.

– Apple Certified Trainer
– Tutorials at http://www.bbalser.com
– South Louisiana FCP Users Group
– NOVAC Digital Filmmakers Institute
– Event DV magazine

[Jerry Hofmann]

I used to use DLT for backup of media files, and found that it was so slow to copy to and backup from, that it was faster to simply recapture the media from tape. Has this changed?

FWIW, I too use flash drives for project file backup or if the station has internet connection, I backup to my iDisk.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D

[Bbalser]

Yes, DLT is slower, but more bulletproof than anything else. I use P2, and there are two drives out now (can’t recall names off hand) that recognize and catalog MXF metadata, so retreval time is cut down.

I only suggest DLT as an archive method that won’t go out of date and won’t die on you. It simply has a much more robust and proven track record than anything else. Software for these DLTs also compresses your data a lot so you can fit more data on a tape, so you save more money.

Flash drives are nice, DVDs are nice, hard drives are nice, but they all fail much more often, and have much shorter life spans than DLT. That’s all.

– Apple Certified Trainer
– Tutorials at http://www.bbalser.com
– South Louisiana FCP Users Group
– NOVAC Digital Filmmakers Institute
– Event DV magazine

[Ron Lindeboom]

Like you, Jerry, I used to *try* to use DLT for back-up but it was just so slow to use that it was not practical. Maybe that has changed but last I looked, it was still the case.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

[Jerry Hofmann]

I’ve never seen a USB flash drive fail, but then anything can happen I suppose.

That said, I really think backing up all media files from any given project is something we all need to do all of the time at all. (enough all’s for ya? LOL..)

I think the future of this is brighter though. Blu-Ray is becoming more afordable, and will more than likely be faster than DLT’s… true no track record, but then, if we’re happy enough to record to them (sony has us doing that now) They are more than likely a safe way to store media if the need really is strong enough to bother to do this with at all in the first place.

P2’s short coming is indeed backup… But brining a DLT to a set to do this doesn’t sound workable… Blu-Ray does though.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D

[Bbalser]

I would never recommend bringing a DLT to the set. I suggested it as the most reliable “archiving” media, to put everything on once the project is done. I’d never do an archive of anything on a set, that’s just silly.

I have seen a couple of flash drives fail. I work outdoors a lot, in a lot of bad southeast Louisiana weather, shooting a lot from boats. Moisture distroys a flashdrive faster than an alligator on a nutria. Case cracks, its distroyed. Lots of ways to distroy a flashdrive. I like them way better than DVD. DVDs are just too pron to physical damage for my tastes.

My point is that a DLT tape, you can smash it against a brick wall (then put the tape in a new case), let it set in water all day, run it through airport x-ray machines all day, and it’ll still be as reliable as ever. Again, my only point is that it is the most reliable archive media, not the only archive media. And comparied to DVD and flash, its also the most GB for your buck.

But again, not the only choice out there, just my choice, based on years of professional IT experience. I’ve seen RAIDs fail that were supposed to be bullet proof, everything fails at some point. But I’ve seen DLT tapes go through building fires and come out fine, when the DVD backups melted long before the still in tact DLT tapes in a closet. Just my personal choice.

– Apple Certified Trainer
– Tutorials at http://www.bbalser.com
– South Louisiana FCP Users Group
– NOVAC Digital Filmmakers Institute
– Event DV magazine

[Jerry Hofmann]

Archiving on the set when you shoot P2 is mandatory man… I can’t trust hard drives at all, just as you don’t trust them… as a side note, capturing on the set no matter what format you’re using is becoming common for good reason.

I’ve already seen shoots get lost or have a big cost added to them when this wasn’t done. i.e. the drive the P2 material was on took a dive, and it cost 1000 bucks to have a drive saver company restore the data, which in this case, they couldn’t get it all.. I’ve seen it happen twice now in fact. NO more problems once you burn DVD’s on the set before you leave. In fact, you should do it before you empty the P2 card.

1. It doesn’t cost more to have an editor on the set because you’ll be paying an editor to become familiar with the footage anyway, and rough cuts can begin on the set… Saving time, and more importantly leading to a better show because thed edit begins while the shoot is happeining… Hollywood films have always done things this way… they are just one day or so behind… i.e. editors start when the shooting starts.

2. That editor is catching all the mistakes made, so they can be fixed a lot cheapter than a reshoot, reset, re light etc… The editor is also checking levels and color balance… I’m telling ya, once you’ve started doing this, you don’t go back…

3. DLT’s are too slow for the demands of the workflow during the shoot when archiving on set which is becoming more and more mandatory as we leave the tape world…

4. I can’t agree with you more about DLT’s being more reliable than DVD’s. HOWEVER if you don’t put your DVD’s in the sunlight, and put them in a case… they won’t be melting. And they burn a lot faster during the shoot itself.

I don’t think there’s a panacea for every situtaion in production, and you’re example points this out. But I do think that DVD’s if handled properly are more workable than DLT’s are…

The company that comes up with a fail safe and fast solution to archiving on set or otherwise will make a fortune down the line here I believe.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D

[Bbalser]

Yeah, I agree with someone who once said it was crazy for Panasonic to market P2 technology wihtout any archive/storage plan to offer or suggest to users. We’re pretty much on our own about that.

I’ve never had many problems on set. I’m not actually “on set” nearly as much as I’m “on site”. Shoot a lot outdoors, in the swamps, sometimes its nice, sometimes the weather is just very ugly. I’m pretty impressed with how my HVX200 and FS-100 are both holding up. Not much of a problem at all. I did have clips missing from a P2 card once, but aside from that, the combo has been pretty reliable. I don’t actually back-up, it’s just the FS-100 until I get back to the studio and off load it to my media drive.

I currently have a 1TB G-Tech as my archive for the time being. Backs up all my projects, media, and the vital stuff from my system drive that will make rebuilding it pretty easy. Three times a week, everything, back it all up. But I really want to move to DLT, again.

I rarely use P2 cards, very rarely…

– Apple Certified Trainer
– Tutorials at http://www.bbalser.com
– South Louisiana FCP Users Group
– NOVAC Digital Filmmakers Institute
– Event DV magazine

[Arnie Schlissel]

Jerry, I can’t tell you how much I agree!

Before we started shooting Perestroika last September, I mapped out an entire strategy that involved me being on set (or pretty darn close) and burning every P2 card to DVD as footage was being transfered off of it to a FW800 drive.

Everything was done in sets of 2. 2 sets of DVDs and 2 sets of FW drives for redundancy. If anything broke, we had a backup. As soon as a card was done importing into FCP, the media drive was mirrored to it’s backup. As soon as 1 DVD was finished burning, a 2nd one was burned.

The 1 time a drive went down on set I brought it back with Disk Warrior, but I had the backup drive attached, & could have formatted & restored the drive in minutes, with 0 data lost.

Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog