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Forums Field Production Avoid Banding & Supplement Existing Light in Airplane Hangar

  • Avoid Banding & Supplement Existing Light in Airplane Hangar

     Bill Davis updated 1 year, 9 months ago 4 Members · 6 Posts
  • Adam Worth

    December 20, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    Hello – I’m shooting/directing/editing a low budget music video in a large hangar 10,000 sq feet. It has existing overhead lighting that I’m forced to use because the budget doesn’t allow for re-lighting the space. The lighting was new as of 2 years ago. Pics included – not sure what kind of light it is. Its a simple one location performance video, just counting on the energy of the band and the ‘look’ of the video – no other story per say.
    I’ve never lit a space this large or had to correct flickering/banding so meticulously, never messed around much with shutter speed, and my experience placing lighting orders is limited too.

    A band will be setup in the middle of this space, This is a fast paced rock song, just a single location performance video that is counting on nice visuals. I had been hoping to shoot in 90 or 45 degree shutter for that ‘saving private ryan’ effect, as well as some slow motion.

    I did some camera tests at 4k 23.98fps in the location with existing lighting, came home and looked at the footage, and I’m getting slight banding at 180 degrees, 90 degrees and 45 degrees, noticeable if you scroll fast:

    I’m shooting on a Panasonic EVA1, it can be set to display shutter as degrees or fractions. I’ve never experimented much with shutter speeds, and i’ve always used the default camera setting of 180 degrees (which as I understand equals 1/48).
    Also on the EVA1 I set the ‘base system frame rate’ as 59.94 or 23.98 – then adjust FPS for slow or fast motion separately.

    At base of 59.94 I dont see any banding in the test footage (01:34). BUT I didn’t test other shutter speeds at 59.94. I ONLY tested 180 degrees, and it maybe difficult to get back in the space for more tests – besides morning of shoot.

    SO my question
    – what can I expect to not have banding shutter and FPS – wise? Is 23.98FPS totally out of the question? What settings should i test first if i have another chance to test?
    Will 59.94 FPS get no banding, at any shutter speed?
    I’m disappointed to be stuck in 59.94 vs 23.98, but maybe if I can do some faster shutter stuff, it may be ok..
    What about 120FPS at a 59.94? The conformed 59.94-23.98 slow motion in my test footage isn’t quite slow enough, but with horrible banding at 23.98 120fps, can I expect to rule out 120FPS?

    I also have a totally separate question about lighting this space on a small budget. My existing lighting kit includes 3x litegear litemat 1×1 led panels, an astra 6x led panel (all just for close-ups I guess), an Apurture 300D daylighting balanced joker style LED, about 800w equivalent, and a small Arri tungsten kit – 650, 300, 150..
    This is a large empty 10,000 square foot room with overhead lighting, I need something with throw to light the band, in the center of the room, in a small circle. The throw distance from lighting setup on one wall to band is about 75 feet / 23 meters. I would like to have some contrast / dramatic lighting on the face – lit from just one side with just a little fill on the other. I will have some quasar 2 foot light tubes on the walls in the background. The overhead lights will be on. The color temp in the room with existing lighting is around 4500k, and the natural f-stop in the room is about 4.5.

    SO my other question
    – I was going to get 2-3 800w jokers, and light the band from about 70 feet thru diffusion (Hampshire frost) and 1/4 CTO to get that temperature equal to the overhead lighting at around 4500k.
    Is there a better way to do this? Or am I on the right track with a few 800w jokers?
    Maybe a better choice in gel? What would compliment these overheads?

    Pic of the space:

    Existing Overhead:

  • Bruce Watson

    December 20, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    [Adam Worth] “what can I expect to not have banding shutter and FPS – wise?”

    If your lighting is using mains frequency (50Hz in PAL countries, 60Hz in NA) as a driver, then you need a frame rate and a shutter speed that are multiples of mains frequency. This is one of the reasons PAL runs 25/50 fps, and it’s one of the reasons that TV in NA is 30/60 fps.

    So, try a test at a multiple of mains frequency and see if your banding doesn’t go away. For example, in NA try 30fps and 1/60th second shutter. See what happens.

  • Mark Suszko

    December 21, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    Apply your “private Ryan” effects in post, and set the shutter to deal with the banding first.

    The other thing I would say is., there’s another way to solve this problem… kill ALL the overhead lights, if you can. Then light with the instruments you have. The overheads, artistically speaking, add nothing, and you’re fighting them the entire time. Some places like this keep a light or two on with no way to turn them off. I’d still rather have that, than the entire ceiling lit up. I didn’t notice where this hangar is and if it’s in cold-weather country, but can you work with daylight coming thru the open hangar doors as your primary source?

    Are the planes going to be in there for the shoot? Can you turn on their strobes and nav lights?

    Is this shoot meant to be limbo?

  • Adam Worth

    December 21, 2018 at 10:47 pm

    Thanks for your help. I can open the doors, but it is winter in new jersey. without overheads its pitch black in there. the planes wont be there on shoot day, just a big open space. its meant to just be in a big open generic space, sort of a blank canvas to highlight the band’s performance. so the plan was just a sort of simple/guerilla style shoot. but the existing lighting is a huge obstacle.

  • Mark Suszko

    December 21, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    Look at it as a creative opportunity.

    I wish I knew what kind of music this was…

    Here are off the top of my head, some cheap ideas…

    A big space like that, one thing I might try is, let it go dark as you can stand, then put lights on dollies, or anything that rolls, and spin them, and maybe the camera, around the band for multiple takes. Get a smoke machine, put your spotlight on a shopping cart and “scan” the light across the band, back and forth, like a laser beam effect.

    See if they have a couple forklifts or man-lifts, place two of them on opposite sides of the band, string your own overhead light(s) between those. Use translucent plastic shower curtains from the dollar store and make a huge diffusion panel from it, blast cheap worklights thru it.

    Post-Chrtistmas light sale: get tons of xmas light strings and sling a web of them above the band and/or all over the floor randomly. Get hella bokeh out of it if done right.

    Bring in a bunch of cars and/or trucks in a semi-circle around and behind the band, with their headlights and parking flashers on. (Bring jumper cables in case the shoot goes long.) On the camera side of the circle, you get big, yet cheap sheets of foil-clad insulation foam from the home improvement store, they make massive soft reflectors to front-fill using bounce from those same headlights.

    Whatever you do, my advice is to kill the existing overheads and then light as creatively as you can afford.

  • Bill Davis

    December 26, 2018 at 11:41 pm

    I agree that if the music is at all edgy, the ability to have lots of space and NO light to start with is a HUGE plus – not a minus.

    Hell, My first thought is to light it with road flares.

    My second thought would be to light it with fire pits and tiki torches.

    My next thought would be how about both?

    It’s a MUSIC video. So there are no rules except make the PEOPLE in the band look cool.


    Creator of XinTwo –
    The shortest path to FCP X mastery.

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