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Avid?
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[Walter Soyka] “Herb makes some great baseball analogies, but the Yankees aren’t playing right now. Avid looks like the Giants: a team with great heritage and some good current potential that just makes too many unforced errors to win.”
My point is that at the moment it really doesn’t seem to matter.
Looking at my options for the future Avid is clearly the most befuddled company with the most backward looking software – I really, really don’t want to go there. But the marketplace doesn’t seem to care – it’s safe and reliable, with proven workflows and a huge skilled labor pool available to handle it’s shortcomings.
Many of those shortcomings are moot because of the workflow – which for most broadcast producers still means external audio mix and color grading.
It is somewhat ironical that Apple’s flight to where the puck will be has left the playing field to the company that lives by knowing where the puck has always been. By the time content providers figure out what to do with 4K, Avid will be there, but it won’t be the first and it won’t be the best, but it will be the safest.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “No, that’s it. I might add that I’m not particularly happy that this is the case, I’ve been avoiding Avid for 20 years or more, it’s just that the dissonance between this forum and the reality of the working world, at least in NYC, sometimes requires an airing.”
I don’t see it as dissonance; I’m not sure we’re all talking about the same time frames. I’ll stipulate that they are competitive now in 2013. I’m asking how long into the future Avid can remain competitive.
Put another way, will MC be the next FCP7?
If not, what is Avid’s way forward?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “Put another way, will MC be the next FCP7?
If not, what is Avid’s way forward?”Avid is the Microsoft of NLEs – it will not modernize at the expense of cutting itself off from it’s legacy customers. It’s way forward will be by keeping one foot in the past – by adding just enough to keep up with new formats without alienating it’s customer base. How long they can keep doing this is anybodies guess, but I don’t see why it can’t continue.
This is the value of a “Cold Mountain” moment, some very well respected figure is going to have to demonstrate why it’s safer and more profitable to go with a different technology. If Mark Raudonis, or someone of his stature, publicly switches to XYZ editor, and goes on record for a new workflow, then Avid should start to worry. That’s why the thread about Radical Media was so heated, it’s as if Walter Murch came out and said, “nah, I tried using FCP but it really wasn’t ready, maybe next year.”
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
It’s true I forgive Avid a lot because I prefer it as an interface for cutting, especially trimming and simple fast effects and coloring. Offline work, essentially.
That said if they ever release a shiny new version that can’t connect to shared storage or a client monitor they will get plenty of abuse from me.
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[Walter Soyka] “There’s out-of-touch marketing, too. I got an email last week that said, “Go Pro with Media Composer for $999.””
That’s not out of touch. Well, maybe the “go pro” language, but that’s a response to the “FCPX not professional” meme, which a couple of years down the road, still hasn’t entirely gone away.
(With me, again, in the camp saying it may not be professional in the way you need it to be…but it IS professional.)
Keep in mind that Avid’s other campaign is “OWN it for $999” — in response to a subscription-only Adobe.
So we can debate the slogan, but not the price. The PRICE is laser focused. The price IS the marketing message. That’s why it’s in every ad. If $999 is too much for you to profit on in a job or three, then you’re not Avid’s target.
Chasing customers who aren’t Avid’s target, that Avid is unable to service, for the sole sake of more customers — that’s how to kill a business in no time.
The trick isn’t to have all the customers. Apple knows that better than anyone.
The trick is to make more than you spend. Apple’s doing that. Avid’s not…which Avid knows of course, and their current path as a business is to fix THAT, not to chase customers they can’t service, at prices that won’t allow them to survive.
[Walter Soyka] “they have got to commit fewer unforced errors like no 4K.”
I’m going to keep contending that by the time they HAVE to have 4K for the MAJORITY of their customers, they will. It’s not like they’re not working on it, just that their customers don’t feel the same urgency that YOU do.
My other point wasn’t that MC is offline-only anymore. It’s plenty online for the overwhelming majority of what’s being produced today and in the near future — but even so, Media Composer is built to be the hub of products that include Resolve, Pro Tools, After Effects, Flame, SCRATCH, and a bunch of other products that aren’t geared to video editing. It’s a specialist’s tool.
The notion that FCP or HD was “the problem” for Avid is an FCP-centric idea that doesn’t reflect Avid’s reality. To Herb’s point, the tale of FCP’s presence in Avid’s most important markets was ALWAYS overstated, and now eroding even further…sure, with some high-profile exceptions…but the target Avid customer has always been primarily about cutting, primarily in mainstream delivery formats, and primarily passing off projects to other people for finesse.
HERE was the unforced error: Avid tried to provide end-to-end solutions that were outside their domain expertise, to service customers and technologies that they didn’t understand well enough. They spent a fortune on companies like Pinnacle and Softimage that took resources (human, business and financial) away from the core business.
(Agreed that DS rocked. Even as the most expensive product in the video portfolio, it was the best bargain. As an example of not understanding that target customer though: those customers complained that the price was too LOW. They could no longer charge Discreet/Autodesk-room rates, because their clients knew how little DS cost. Another story for another day, but shows the problems Avid had when they tried to compete on price. That wasn’t helping DS customers AT ALL.)
You might say that a narrowly focused, specialist core business is the problem for Avid and Media Composer. Maybe. But I look at a company that’s wall to wall with specialist solutions whose fortunes have revived: Quantel, not because they tried to become someone new, or do anything especially different. They became a better Quantel.
Of course, Quantel was way out in front with 4K, so maybe I’m full of it. LOL
Hey, and advertising in Creative COW helps. LOL I’m just saying. LOL
But to circle back to the part of your quote I agree with wholeheartedly, Quantel stopped committing unforced errors.
I just don’t see that not having 4K YET is one of those for Avid.
[Walter Soyka] ” I have absolutely no idea what Avid’s view of the future is in post.”
Well, I ain’t arguing with THAT. LOL
Except to the extent that, no matter what else is true, Avid’s future is the same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same. as. it. ever. was: cutting in a group setting.
Yes, including online…but NOT finishing. OMF, AAF, and all those are TLAs (three-letter acronyms) are all about getting your Avid projects OUT of Media Composer, to their proper next steps.
Stable timelines, stable bins, networked workflows — these are still priceless to Avid’s core business, and exactly why Avid’s not going away for those folks any time soon. Not because they’re on top of next year’s formats.
(“Same as it ever was” is a joke that some of you will be too young to remember. Even for the geezers, I guarantee that it’s been too long since you watched THIS. Skip to 1:30 if you need to.)
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A post that’s still too long, but not TOOOOO long. 🙂
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Damn, I was going to make the same MS analogy.
With Interplay Avid was the first to demo (under a different name at the time) and release a server-based, ‘edit anywhere’ solution but it’s aimed at larger instillations so isn’t of much use to smaller users. For the past few years though that’s all I can come up with in regards to Avid leading a charge. The rest has been more along the lines of survival and keeping up with the Jones’, if you will. Out of curiosity has anyone used the new Flame Flex tool in MC 7?
I wonder how much Avid wants to (or can) try and get back the middle of the market that FCP Legend took over. The middle area certainly needs tools that have the capabilities for broader reach and maybe Avid wants to stay focused on the higher end right now where specialist are hired for specific tasks instead of generalists hired for many tasks? What got me thinking was that I didn’t realize Avid couldn’t go up to 4K but when I thought about it 99% of my Avid work ever has been in offline in SD. Of course I do a lot of multi-editor unscripted work where it’s just not feasible to work in HD (even DNx36). A dozen editors trolling through hundreds of hours of footage that’s all in 4-12 cam multi groups gets demanding in terms of storage and bandwidth.
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[Dan Stewart] “It’s true I forgive Avid a lot because I prefer it as an interface for cutting, especially trimming and simple fast effects and coloring. Offline work, essentially.
That said if they ever release a shiny new version that can’t connect to shared storage or a client monitor they will get plenty of abuse from me.”
Hey, that’s why I prefer FCPX as well. Which editor today cannot connect to shared storage or to a client monitor? Premiere?
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—- [Tim Wilson] “First, it’s 147 self-selected respondents. Without careful modeling, that’s just not a meaningful sample. —-
What was Herb’s sample size? A bigger question would be: what percentage of all good paying editing jobs is in his friends market?
—- (For reference, there are 250,000 members at Creative COW, with around 2 million visitors every month.) —–
What does your poll say?
—- Most important, the survey doesn’t address Herb’s point at all — the top 10% of the industry, maybe even less. Maybe 5%.” —-
Define the top 5-10%. Income? Income/expense ratio? Broadcast? Feature Films? Top number of views on YouTube? Client satisfaction? Personal happiness? Name recognition? Number of posts on Creative Cow? Who gets to decide this?
If I make $2500/week (minimum) for a 40 hour week living in a rural area near Seattle, how does that compare to making $3500/week in New York? I bet my income to spending ratio is better where I live. I pay all of my essential personal and business bills in a week and a half here (including my home mortgage). There’s a lot of variables in asserting who is in the top 5-10% of the pro workforce.
My perspective is that the inroads that FCP legacy made have not vanished, they have diversified. Specifically, AVID isn’t really on the map much where I live anymore… it’s not AVID, none of the time, and less so than it has ever been.
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[James Culbertson] “Hey, that’s why I prefer FCPX as well. Which editor today cannot connect to shared storage or to a client monitor? Premiere?”
No, Premiere can do both…
Shawn
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[James Culbertson] “My perspective is that the inroads that FCP legacy made have not vanished, they have diversified. Specifically, AVID isn’t really on the map much where I live anymore… it’s not AVID, none of the time, and less so than it has ever been.”
Horses for courses. My comments were strictly about broadcast in NYC and LA. The difference between those cities and yours, or any others, is the sheer number of editors here. This has nothing to do with who is “more pro” or makes more money. NY and LA are the largest media producers in the country, and in the broadcast segment it is all Avid.
Quite simply, if you’re in NYC and your trying to make a living as a freelance editor and you don’t have any experience cutting with Avid, your painting with your eyes closed – it can be done, but I don’t recommend it.
And someday I will get smart enough to take my own advice.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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