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Avid Offline – FCP Online… Looking like a nightmare!
We’re doing post for a series shot on Varicam (25fps). The process we have planned (and very briefly tested) is:
1) Capture and edit in Avid Xpress Pro as DV25 (using SD25 mode on AJ-HD1400).
2) Export EDL or AAF (for Automatic Duck)
3) Import EDL or AAF into FCP
4) Batch Capture (ProRes 422 1920×1080 50i using deck’s HD25 mode), and enjoy.The series is still in offline, step 1 has been going swimmingly.
As a bit of a test we’re doing the same process with a music video we recently shot. It’s not going well.
I’ve got the AAF into FCP with Automatic Duck (needs a fair bit of massaging, but that’s okay).
However here’s where it gets nightmarish.
I’ve used Media Manager to set the sequence up for reconform. Created a new project, with ‘Create Offline’ and ‘Delete Unused’… What I get is a sequence and a folder full of clips, a lot like what I’d get with a Decompose in Avid.
Then comes the painful bit. I select the sequence start the batch capture and it kicks off. I get some distance in (7-10 clips of tape 1) and then it says “Timecode Error: End of tape reached” – which it most certainly is not. Before popping that error, it shuttles back and forth around a spot on the tape for a bit. There is no obvious timecode breaks here.
I’ve broken the sequence down a few times with different handle lengths (in case that was having an effect) start with 2sec, went to 12frames and then 0frames. No major difference.
If I were doing this in Avid I’d crash capture the clip from the tape and then just relink it, but that’s not possible in FCP. My only option, it seems, would be to crash capture it and then manually edit it in over the skipped one.
Now confusingly in the Error report later is says there were timecode breaks encountered in the clips. Nothing about end of tape. Or maybe it’s that the report says timecode break, and the capture was reporting ‘end of tape’ that is weird.
With 4 out of 20 clips doing this on the first tape, this is not going to work at all. For a 4 minute music video it’s going to be a pain, for a drama series it’s going to be a huge problem.
I’m capturing from tapes shot on the Panasonic Varicam at 25fps (over 59.94Hz as it does) using the AJ-HD1400 with it’s 25 HD mode. I’m capturing with a Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme, in a Octo-3Ghz Mac Pro, running 10.4.11 and FCP 6.0.2.
Help!?
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5 Replies
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Has to be asked – any particular reason why you aren’t offlining and onlining on the same system whether that be Avid or FCP?
Martin
Digital Heaven, London UK
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[Dylan Reeve] “I’ve used Media Manager to set the sequence up for reconform. Created a new project, with ‘Create Offline’ and ‘Delete Unused’… What I get is a sequence and a folder full of clips, a lot like what I’d get with a Decompose in Avid.”
Why are you doing this? There is no reason to do this at all if you’re just getting an AAF/OMF from the Avid editor. All of your media is going to be offline anyway.
In Final Cut Pro, Create a New Project, Import the AAF using Automatic Duck, Set up your Easy Setup, Capture.
I’ve done almost 100 Avid projects this way and it works perfectly fine. I’ve never used the Media Manager.
[Dylan Reeve] “I’m capturing from tapes shot on the Panasonic Varicam at 25fps (over 59.94Hz as it does) using the AJ-HD1400 with it’s 25 HD mode.”
No, it does not do 25fps over 59.94. You have to change that to 25/50 I believe. 59.94 is an NTSC setting, not PAL. You will have TC issues if you leave the deck in 59.94 and try to capture 25.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR
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Our Avid systems have no HD I/O hardware. We’ve been using them for offline because that’s what we are comfortable cutting on.
We purchased the FCP suite more or less for this role, as it offered better value for HD online than a similar machine from Avid (ie. MC Adrenaline with DNxcel HD)
Typically we wouldn’t offline and online on the same physical system anyway, although for SD projects we’d normally stay within Avid.
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[walter biscardi] “Why are you doing this? There is no reason to do this at all if you’re just getting an AAF/OMF from the Avid editor. All of your media is going to be offline anyway.
In Final Cut Pro, Create a New Project, Import the AAF using Automatic Duck, Set up your Easy Setup, Capture.
I’ve done almost 100 Avid projects this way and it works perfectly fine. I’ve never used the Media Manager.”
We did that, what I get then in the sequence with the 6 master clips it was built from. Selecting a batch capture on that sequence wants then to capture all the media from those clips (about 3 hours worth for a 4-minute video).
The other option I have considered is doing the decompose in Avid first, then exporting the decomposed sequence (which will link to smaller clips) to FCP. I will try that today.
I was using the Media Manager to emulate the ‘Decompose’ function I’d use in Avid to prepare a sequence for online.
[walter biscardi] “No, it does not do 25fps over 59.94. You have to change that to 25/50 I believe. 59.94 is an NTSC setting, not PAL. You will have TC issues if you leave the deck in 59.94 and try to capture 25.”
Yeah, it does. Everything on Varicam is 59.94 (or 60). The Varicam system simply does not run at 50Hz, ever (other DVCPRO HD cameras, like the HDX9000 do). When shooting with Varicam in PAL world, we end up with basically a 25fps offspeed clip over 60Hz.
To counter this, the AJ-HD1400 offers two modes specifically for this called ’25(SD)’ and ’25(HD)’. They output the 25fps signal with new timecode on a 50Hz carrier (only over SDI/Analogue the Firewire doesn’t work in that mode).
It only works with 25fps material too, any other ‘offspeed’ rate has to be dealt with separately with the deck operating in 59/60 mode.
When operating in either of these 25 modes, the deck generates new 25fps timecode from the tape (although our tests have indicated that it is frame accurate of multiple playback passes).
Basically, Varicam, while a very nice idea, has only ever been properly designed to work in a 60Hz environment. It is pretty much a nightmare in 50Hz environments.
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I think I may have found the cause of the problem.
For some reason when I started my project it had a Device Control profile set to 720p50 (rather than the 1080i50 that the deck is operating in).
What this seems to have done is double the frame number on any clip it encountered. So if I took a clip with in marked at 01:02:40:22 and dropped it in the Log and Capture tool the In Point that FCP decided to look for was 01:02:40:44 (which isn’t going to exist on a 25fps timecode obviously).
This is my fault for not checking the Device Control setting, but at the same time FCP could really make it a lot easier to spot these things. When doing a Batch Capture there is pretty much no feedback at all, I can’t see what timecode it’s looking for, the duration, or anything. If a clip fails I have to hit ‘Cancel’ then hit ‘Ok’ on the error summary that comes up, then hit ‘Continue’ on the batch summary to carry on skipping that clip.
This issue has highlighted the two things I find most disconcerting about FCP in this sort of work…
– The poor capture interface. It’s really crappy. No idea what it’s doing, no timecode, setting spread around and not easily visible.
– Immature ‘media management’… In my onlining experience with Avid there have been many times where I’ve had to manually capture a clip and then have Avid relink to that clip. In FCP this is impossible. In Avid I can easily relink a sequence (cutdown, re-edit, whatever) to existing online media – in FCP, unless the filename and start and duration are exactly the same, this is impossible.
These things aren’t a huge issue when taking a project from ingest to completion in one pass, but we often work in an offline/online flow where these issues do become a major problem.
Anyway, it seems to be capturing okay now… I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
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