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Avid EDL not correct framerate?
I am trying to get a better grasp of an Avid to FCP workflow. This project is small and so far I can’t justify the purchase of Automatic Duck; so I already know it’s an alternative.
I captured a few clips in the Avid, and after a test edit I exported an Avid EDL, using CMX-3600, change tape names to numbers, and show file names. The Project setting is 23.976, and I chose the “24” Record TC, though TC1 option gives me the same error regardless. When I try to import the EDL into FCP using the DV NTSC 23.98 preset it says “Error importing a clip at record time 00:00:00:00” If I choose the regular DV NTSC then the EDL comes in. Only, the sequence is now a 29.97 preset.
I have captured my footage via firewire from MiniDV using the 2:3 pulldown option to comply with the DVX100’s 24P mode. The footage in Avid is definitely 23.98, and the project is the same (well 23.976). What am I doing wrong on this EDL? I want it to be a 23.98 project in Final Cut as well, but it won’t do anything but a 29.976 timebase. I plan to recapture using an Avid ALE, and then IVTC using Cinema Tools so I have the 23.98 footage to work with in the 23.98 FCP sequence.
Yes I know it’s a lot of work, but all of this will help me understand this workflow better, and in the future I can look at Automatic Duck (though I’d buy it right now if it were half the listed price)
Please help guys.
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6 Replies
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Ok so I had a breakthrough. After reading some old posts and going over to 24p.com, I discovered this hidden TC24 column. After setting it up right I can now successfully import the Avid project over to FCP. Here is my next question though:
The Avid project is 23.98fps, but it exports a 24fps EDL. Choosing DV NTSC 23.98 in Final Cut Pro allows me to import this 24fps EDL just fine. When I reconnect to the 23.98 media though, the media manager says that there is a rate difference; which makes sense seeing as how it’s a 24fps timeline now.
Should I go 24p all the way then? 24p project setting in Avid, 24p EDL, and convert FCP footage into 24p via Cinema Tools?
The option for FCP importing the EDL into DV NTSC 23.98 is odd, since the EDL is straight 24p. Will my edits get wonky going from Avid project 23.98, using the EDL, and going to FCP project with 23.98 media? This is my current setup, but I’ll go 24p all the way if need be.
Sorry if this is confusing, but I assume someone has been here before and has seen the light.
Thanks.
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There is no such thing as a 23.976 EDL – it is a matter of playback speed. the same :00 t0 :23 frames will play back at 24fps or 23.976, but they are the same frames. Don’t know about FCP that much, but there should be something somewhere to indicate a 23.976 timeline.
Michael
Michael Phillips
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Man I swear on my life that I saw 24 as the editing timebase in the FCP sequence settings after importing that Avid EDL. Thats really bugging me now…
Well after reading around I see that its 30 or 24fps EDLs (for 29.97, and 23.98) but after seeing that setting I got all confused. Now I can’t seem to replicate it.
One thing I might also add, in case someone doesn’t know this: you can convert the 30fps EDL that Avid creates into a 24fps with Cinema Tools. This might be standard knowledge but I just found it out, and man is it cool 🙂 So now two ways for the Avid EDL to FCP!
Thanks for the feedback Michael, and thank you very much for the informative 24p.com site.
Jeff
Oh, before I forget. Are the Pullin column in the bin, and the Pulldown starting frame from the EDL Manager something I should look into as well; for a proper EDL that is?
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Man, I am so glad I work in PAL most of the time.
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If everyone adhered to the “A” frame falling on 30fps NDF timecodes ending on 0 and 5’s, then we can get close to a matchback in every one’s software being the same. There can be different algorithms used to derive a matchback from one frame rate to another such as allowing a but to be +/-1 frame at the head and tail, head only, tail only, different rules for dissolves, etc. In the case where you say take a 30 frame EDL – unless the timeline was being edited a 30, thee is a matchback being done from 24 to 30, then you take the 30 back to 24. You may introduce a 1-2 error on any on frame. Editing at 24 and making a 24 frame EDL is the most frame accurate.
As far as I know, Cinema Tools doesn’t really track the A, B, C, D, and X of the cadence relationship which can also affect the frame accuracy. But as I said, IF and a big IF – everyone observes the “A” frames on 0 and 5 you should be as close as you can get with a 24 to 24 EDL for conform.
And I realize that PAL does not have a lot of these problems, but in the end, I would still prefer to work in 23.976 in NTSC world becuase the difference is only .1% rather than the 4.1% difference in 24/25 and the audio workflow is easier. Just my humble opinion. Of course that is not an issue for 25/25 workflows.
Michael
Michael Phillips
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I’ll keep that info in mind for Cinema Tools. The Avid timeline is 23.98, and I’m exporting the 24 frame EDL for Final Cut. As long as I set the Import EDL settings in FCP to be 23.98, all goes as smooth as butter. I don’t notice any frame drifts, but I will watch out for it.
I’m not sure if I’m just lucky or what, because I really only played around with EDL’s for a day or two before figuring this out. One little setup I have figured out is kind of cool: almost an Automatic Duck setup…though not as “Automatic”:
So I capture my DV footage in the 23.98 project as uncompressed (for more room color grading in Color) I do my edit then export an EDL from Avid. Then I create Quicktime reference files of the media in the Avid bins; just a quick batch select and export. By the grace of God, somehow Final Cut loves those Quicktime proxies! I can edit with them and export perfectly. So I link the EDL to those proxies and I’ve got a damn cool workflow. In all honestly the Duck sounds cooler, and is quicker, but the price of admission is still a little steep right now. I’ll most likely buy it a few projects down the road. Unless Apple allows Final Cut to read AAF’s….hint hint Apple!
Jeff
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