AVID DS vs. MC vs. Symphony

[William Watts]

Avid DS is a heavy-duty finishing tool, for concentrating on full-res high quality compositing,effects and formatting. It was originally developed by Softimage, and whilst there have been efforts to make it more Avid-like it remains vastly different because it is so much more sophisticated.
It is highly likely that you could jump on and be simple cutting in the timeline quite quickly, but you wouldn’t be in the least bit comfortable.It also sounds a bit odd that someone wants you to cut on one,simply because it’s an expensive box that needs high rates to pay off. (I have been lucky enough to be able to cut short items full res on DS however and it is just excellent.)
Good luck !
William Watts.

Regards,
Will.

(freelance editor,Brighton,U.K.)

[Grinner Hester]

It’s fair to think of DS as an Avid that does not require After Effects open in the background. To this day, DS is by far Avid’s premier bad boy. Makes me wish they would have created it.
lol
You will be able to sit down and get the basics without crackin a manual but it handles other tasks very differently and you’llw anna set some time aside to go through it before booking a session on it.
While they altered it’s interface a bit to look more Avid like, it really is not the same interface at all.
You’ll dig it’s quality. Leaps and bounds over Avid’s lower solutions. One can actually rotate a PIP without aliasing! Something an MC or Symphony still cant do to this day.
Until reciently, it’s price point is what kept most Avid users/owners on an MC. Now that it’s becoming affordable, more users than owners are intrigued as owners know what they can put in a FCP suite, know what they can get out of it and still can’t justify the difference in price point.
I do see plenty of em on ebay for steller prices these daze. Kind of rollin the dice thatw ay but I know of no way that does not involve a gamble.

[Bob Zelin]

Hello Mr. Apart –
here is a simple answer.

You know what Media Composer is.

Symphony is Media Composer with secondary color correction and real time Ultimatte (that’s what the Meridian Symphony was – then there is newer Symphony Nitris, in 2 formats – the previous version used the Nitris hardware, and now it uses the new Nitris DX box).

But DS – this is not Media Composer, and don’t think that you are going to sit down in front of a DS, and go to work, and “figure it out” by yourself in 2 hours. DS was a product called Softimage DS, which was purchased by Microsoft, and then was purchased by AVID. It competed with Media Composer, and I believe (and I hope my memory is wrong when I make this insane statement) that AVID paid $100 Million dollars for the DS product (boy, I hope someone tells me that I am an idiot and I am wrong about this number). In the quote below, you will see the words “Merging Technologies”. This was the Canadian audio company that Softimage used as their audio breakout box, just like AVID used Digidesign Audio Interface products before they bought the Digidesign ProTools product line.

But just for you to see –

NEW YORK, Nov. 6, 1997 — Softimage Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corp., today announced broad industry support and development commitments from third-party software developers for SOFTIMAGE® |DS, a comprehensive new nonlinear video production system for creating, editing and finishing videos. Developers that showed plug-ins for SOFTIMAGE® |DS at the recent IBC show in Amsterdam include 5D Ltd., Digital Video s.r.l., The Foundry, Merging Technologies, P.E. PHOTRON Ltd. and Ultimatte Corp.

So what is the bottom line here – DS is a different product.

Bob Zelin

[Set Apart]

Thanks Bob. That helps. Actually thanks to all you guys. So I’ll stay away from DS unless I have no choice.

So correct me if I’m wrong. But you are saying that the AVID Nitrus DX system is actually like Media Composer except it has more bells and whistles for finishing and Graphics?

It’s confusing because unless you’ve used those products, it’s easy to get DS and Nitris DX mixed up.

But, if I know MC then I should be able to run the Nitris DX? the Nitris is like symphony on steroids?

Look forward to your response.

[Bob Zelin]

I know this is confusing. It’s all a word game, to sell new products.

The Nitris DX is a hardware box. The typical AVID package is Media Composer with the Nitris DX box. This is not a Symphony, it is not Media Composer on Steroids. It’s this years version of Media Composer with Adrenaline, but the Adrenaline is discontinued, and now they call it NItris DX. It’s just an input/output box, like a fancy version of the Mojo SDI.

The AVID Symphony comes with the SAME BOX. In the past, when you bought a Media Composer, it only came with the Adreanline box. If you wanted a Symphony, it was called “Symphony Nitris”, because it could run symphony or nitris ds software, and it only came with the Nitris hardware.

Today, the only box (other than mojo) is the Nitris DX box. Owning a Nitris DX box does not mean you have a symphony. It means that you can run either the Media Composer software, or the Symphony software.

Bob Zelin

[Job Ter burg]

“Until reciently, it’s price point is what kept most Avid users/owners on an MC.”
Many, many reasons to use MC over DS. Not everyone is in the finishing business, grin, and even those who are, sometimes see more benefit in MC/Symph. Different tools for different jobs.

[Set Apart]

Hey Bob,
Thanks for your help. You cleared everything up for me. I had no idea that Nitris DX was the same as Adrenaline and it’s the actual hardware box that works with MC.

Now I can breath easy.

Thanks again man. Guys like you are what makes creative cow forums so useful.

What a blessing!

[Grinner Hester]

It’s funny.
They make products for audio, products for hackin video up, products for sweet compositing, even some bells n whistles for quick and easy 3d.
but they don’t make any one product that assumes we make shows start to finish. While that use to sell two or three rooms instead of one room for em, man now it sells none for em. I’m thinking releasing a soupe to nuts solution would do well for em.

[Annaël Beauchemin]

I’m a bit late on this thread but i’ll chime in…

If you aren’t on a tight deadline, or working with clients directly on your shoulder and your boss understands you need some time to grasp the DS, i’ll say go for it. If you just know Xpress, maybe it’ll be a bit hard to get up to speed with DS because timeline behavior and media management is pretty different. But doing effects (especially compositing) on DS is a charm compared to Xpress/Symph/MC. I came to DS from FCP/AE/Combustion and it was easier to get comfortable on the DS than later when I learned MC. I whish my job would make me work more often on DS than I am right now…. it’s a sweet tool when you need to deliver quality products.

If you want to try DS, there is a “training” version you can download and explore at home on a PC with a decent graphics card. Unfortunately, it was recently updated and is currently unavailable, but you could email avid to get it I guess… here’s the “coming soon” link: https://aviddssupport.softimage.com/index.htm?section=documentation&page=DS_10_training.htm

DS also has a Google List my many passionate and knowledgeable DS users:
https://groups.google.com/group/DS-List/

plus a wiki with many tips and tricks not in the manual:
https://dswiki.wikispaces.com/

[Annaël Beauchemin]

[grinner hester] “They make products for audio, products for hackin video up, products for sweet compositing, even some bells n whistles for quick and easy 3d.
but they don’t make any one product that assumes we make shows start to finish. While that use to sell two or three rooms instead of one room for em, man now it sells none for em. I’m thinking releasing a soupe to nuts solution would do well for em.”

That is exactly what DS is about. One software for everything.