AVCHD vs HDV

[John Rofrano]

[Stewart Bourke] ” A local shop here rents a number of these cameras by the day/week, and so I plan to try a couple of them out before committing (including the AX2000)….”

Stewart, that’s an excellent idea. This way there are no surprises when you get the camera. Glad I could help (…even if I am an old HDV stick-in-the-mud). 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Stephen Mann]

Greg – AVCHD files are very compressed.

The only bulwark against the massive compression in AVCHD is sheer bone
crushing-processor power and blazing fast disk throughput.

(Stolen quote but worth repeating often).

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com

[Jonathan Thomas]

Hi Scott,
How does your Sony DCR HC1 compare in quality with your Sony FX1?

[Scott Francis]

HDR-HC1 shoots pretty nice, other than low light issues. I have found ways around low light noise however by setting shutter speed and W/B manually and then having the lighting guy set his lowest light level and MANUALLY adjusting my exposure (HC1 has no manual gain or iris, is opens up the iris and then adds gain automatically). I do set shutter speed, W/B and gain for the FX1 and run iris on auto when shooting in a theatre/concert setting. The HC1 then fits in pretty reasonably with the FX1 with a little color matching….but I love the FX1 on so many levels…just looks darn nice!

Scott Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions

[Nigel O’neill]

Scott

Besides the desire to stay up to date, if your delivery target audience is not changing i.e. DVD and Bluray are your main outputs, then what is the main driver for upgrading?

If your cameras are in good nick, were well maintained and serviced, and your drums are still good, why upgrade?

I have to admit that my foray into AVCHD is limited, and I only have one camera (the Canon HG-10) that I use for wide, safety shots. I have used my FX1, HC3 and Z1P in live theatre work, but would not use the AVCHD camera as it only acquires at 17 mbps, much lower than HDV. The quality difference is noticeable on the timeline.

We have used Panasonic AG-HPX502EN P2 HD’s (on loan from a University’s media department) and achieved fantastic results, but I suspect they may be encroaching onto Sony EX1/3 price territory.

Like you, I need a camera that can be operated in near total darkness with full manual independent controls for focus, iris, shutter and white balance, with zoom being operated by LANC. Having XLR inputs is also handy, plus an accessory hot shoe for mounting an external (portable) monitor. My only criticism about the Z1P and FX1 is that they only have a 12X zoom. 20X would be nice and allow me to get head shots in a theatre.

I have used an HXR-NX5, but its output matches the EX1 more closely. If you were going to replace all your camera’s en masse, pricewise they are similar to the FX1, about AUD$5,000 new. The NX5 also records HD, not just HDV.

Personally, I don’t like CMOS because of problems relating to ‘rolling shutter’ which I have experienced during fast-ish panning. I can put up with CCD smearing, but I only see that badly showing on the cheaper CCD cameras i.e. typically not my FX1 or Z1P. And whilst CMOS sensors are said to perform better at low light, it comes at the expense of digital noise. I am not a CMOS convert. I guess I am a bit ‘old school’ with my cameras, HDV and CCD, but they do the job, and do it well, and in the case of HDV, extremely easy to edit. I have delivered in Bluray and it looks fantastic, and until PAL progressive becomes mainstream in Australia, PAL interlaced @25fps is the way to go for me!

Lastly, I find small cams hard to handhold (when I have to) due to their light weight and compact size. Big cameras at weddings are not only a bit ‘showy’, but they tend to keep the relatives and guests at bay as they recognise you immediately as the official videographer. I get similar results when shooting live theatre where I have to set up in the audience due to space issues. I usually am given a wide berth.

Hope all this info helps you towards making the right decision.

Intel i7 920, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 10 (x32/x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6

[John Rofrano]

[Nigel O'Neill] ” I guess I am a bit ‘old school’ with my cameras, HDV and CCD, but they do the job, and do it well, and in the case of HDV, extremely easy to edit.”

+1

Me and Nigel attend the same old school. lol… 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Scott Francis]

My main reasons are the following:
1) Like the idea of going tape less. Doing a lot of theatre and concert shoots, changing tape is a real pain. I always capture to laptops as well (tape actually ends up being a backup) but I use a lot of 11′ high towers, off of balcony rails mounts and such and not needing to worry about tape would be awesome! And even allow me to fly some cams!!! (Yes I know there are portable HD units, but lets face it, they are WAY overpriced)
2) Modern sensors seem to have gotten better. I also am a bit old school and like CCD’s, but in reality CMOS seems to have overtaken the market, and seeing some footage from some cams just looks amazing using CMOS.
3) 24p, there is a lot of reason my clients would like this and frankly after using some footage from a 5D, I loved it!
4) Staying up to date…..

If anyone has cams (other than the TM700-900 which has no wired remote option) please let me know!!
Thanks!

Scott Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions

[Nigel O’neill]

1) Like the idea of going tape less. Doing a lot of theatre and concert shoots, changing tape is a real pain.

I use Panasonic 83 minute tapes, plus record to a tape deck via the composite out if I am delivering in DV. Yes, it is a pain, and tapes suffer from occasional drop outs, but I also have this fear with tapeless acquisition in that the storage device being written to can wholly get corrupted and you lose everything. I just like the reassuring physical media of tape :-). So long as my HDV cameras are serviceable, there’s no need for me to ‘keep up with the Joneses’. I have no business need for it, but I suspect your situation is different.

2) Modern sensors seem to have gotten better. I also am a bit old school and like CCD’s, but in reality CMOS seems to have overtaken the market, and seeing some footage from some cams just looks amazing using CMOS.

I believe the lean towards CMOS is possibly been more commercially driven in that CMOS chips allow integrated processing on the chip itself. Personally, I think CCD is superior, but it’s the Betamax vs VHS argument all over again. Betamax was superior, but the marketing spin gurus won on the end and we got limbered with VHS.

Intel i7 920, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 10 (x32/x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6

[Mac Mcginnis]

If I may ask one more question before this thread dies. Do you use the Sony HD tapes to shoot in HD or can you use the regular tapes to record the HD images?

[John Rofrano]

[Mac McGinnis] ” Do you use the Sony HD tapes to shoot in HD or can you use the regular tapes to record the HD images?”

I use the Sony HD tapes. They are more robust than regular tapes and when you get a dropout with a long GOP format like MPEG2, you loose the whole 15 frame GOP not just one like with DV. That’s a 1/2 second glitch! So it’s really important to use good tape and never reuse a tape.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com