AVC-Intra 50 in FCP

[Michael Sacci]

Most of this is on Panasonic’s website.

But you cannot edit AVC-Intra natively in FCP at this time, it has to be transfered to ProRes. AVC-Intra50 is half the size of DVCProHD (and Intra100).

So if you want to edit nativity with mxf you need to stay with DVCProHD.

The benefit of editing natively is you save on transfer time. You can also save on HD space but I don’t recommend ever editing on the only copy of the footage.

[Dave Francombe]

So AVC-Intra is a great space saver initially, but then you have to transfer to Prores to edit, unless there is a work around, suggested in the MXF4Mac tutorial. Does that then turn a small file size into a pretty big one ? Thats what I don’t understand, I have one file type AVC-Intra, I transfer it to prores to edit, now I have two file types of the same material ? I have the original file, plus the new prores file, have I now doubled the amount of material I have, or is it just wrapping the original file to play as prores ? Just can’t wrap my head around this….sorry !

Dave

[Steve Eisen]

AVC-Intra 50 has 4:2:0 chroma sampling compared to DVC Pro HD and AVC-Intra 100 4:2:2.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Board of Directors
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dave Francombe] “Can anyone explain AVC-intra 50 vs DVCHDpro in terms of image size, quality and hours of material per TB of drive space “

AVC-I 50 was mainly created for broadcasters who usually have 50 mb/sec infrastructures (servers/delivery/etc). AVC-I 50 is still I frame, but as Steve Eisen mentioned, it’s 4:2:0 and it’s also ‘thin raster’ meaning it’s 920×720 or 1280×1080 to help with more efficient file sizes.

AVC-I 100 is full raster (1280×720 or 1920×1080) HD @ 4:2:2 sampling, and it’s also 10 bit. It is also double the file size.

DVCPro HD is 100mb/sec, thin raster, 4:2:2 and 8 bit.

[Dave Francombe] “What are the benefits of editing natively vs the transfer.”

My tutorial pretty much shows you, but basically, there is no transfer, yo simply send over the files to FCP and edit. If you have setup your metadata ahead of time, there’s even no logging. It’s quite a treat.

[Dave Francombe] “Finally what is the AVC intra work around for native file editing ?”

Unfortunately when I made that tutorial, I thought I had a work around in place to get 10 bit decoding from AVC-I without Log and transfer, but I jumped the gun a little bit. It turns out the only way to get a 10 bit decode of AVC-I material in FCP is via log and transfer. I apologize for my mistake. This means that for right now, the metadata is lost in AVC footage as Log and transfer doesn’t carry any metadata. BUT Andreas Kiel of Spherico Film Tools and the nice folks at MXF4mac are working on a P2 metadata editing program that will allow the carrying of metadata from AVC-I material and use Log and transfer for the 10 bit decode. Read this blahhg post for details and feel free to ask more questions as I am sure you will have some. We need a codec from Apple that is a native AVC-I codec to Quicktime in order to get a native AVC-I workflow in FCP. Send feedback to Apple and ask for it.

[Dave Francombe] “Just totally clueless whats the best file type to capture on the camera, and work with in FCP prior to the aja conversion. “

If shooting AVC-I use ProRes. It’s been a great codec for me so far. AJA cards can handle it no problem, but you will need an intel machine.[Dave Francombe] “but is new AG-HPX300 a better way to go given my storage needs ?”

Since we don’t have a native AVC-I workflow, it will basically double your storage needs as now you will have the native MXF files to store and then you will have the ProRes files that you need to edit with. After your edit, you can dump the ProRes files and you can easily retranscode the files from the AVC-I MXFs. FCP makes that pretty easy actually.

For DVCPro HD, all you need is the native MXFs to edit from and will cut down on storage.

Hope that helps a little.

Jeremy

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dave Francombe] “Does that then turn a small file size into a pretty big one ? “

In the log and transfer window you can see what the current file size is and what the projected file size is. Check out the screen grab for ‘Source size’ which is the size of the AVC-I MXF and the “Target Size” which is an approximation of what the file size will be after Log and Transfer:

[Dave Francombe] ” I have the original file, plus the new prores file, have I now doubled the amount of material I have”

You got it. Now you can keep the AVC-I MXF files on a separate drive. Once you have the main ProRes files on your main edit drive, you won’t need the MXF files anymore to edit, but keep them as they become the archive. They are your digital tapes, in essence.

Making more sense?

Jeremy

[Dave Francombe]

Jeremy,

Thanks for the post ! Things are becoming a little clearer.

“After your edit, you can dump the ProRes files and you can easily retranscode the files from the AVC-I MXFs. FCP makes that pretty easy actually”

After the transcode, and the package is complete, I could media manage, trash the prores and reconnect back to the MXF files later, so although the transcode has been made it always references back to the original files, even if names etc have been changed along the way ?

From what I can gather from your posts you, use LTO to backup field material. Can you tell me how that fits in with your work flow ? The archive of material is what worries me a little. I want a scalable system, individual TB drives dont feel secure, raids are costly and will fill up our san system after a while. I was looking at the drobo as an LTO alternative. This lets you put 4-8 2tb drives in its enclosure, and gives them raid protection. I can yank them out as a bundle when they are full, drop them on a shelf, and they will instantly have your raid available when you load them back into the machine to gather material. I can hang this on our SAN through the server. I’d just dump material off it onto our raids to edit. Good, bad or terrible idea ?

I have a lot more acquisition work flow questions… sorry and thanks.

Dave

[Steve Eisen]

Dave

You have asked many questions the past few days regarding your HD workflow.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I highly recommend hiring a consultant to help you from acquisition to delivery and everything in between including the correct hardware for your system.

If you say your final delivery is 1080 59.94 HDCAM, then you should shoot 1080i60 or 720p60 if you are SO concerned about file size. I can confuse you even more and tell you to shoot 720 30pn to save even more space.

Here is a great article from Walter Biscardi about the storage solution he uses.
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/biscardi_walter/media_san.php

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Board of Directors
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dave Francombe] “After the transcode, and the package is complete, I could media manage, trash the prores and reconnect back to the MXF files later, so although the transcode has been made it always references back to the original files, even if names etc have been changed along the way ? “

You simply load the cards back in to the log and transfer window, select the offline clips in the browser and right click and hit batch capture. It’s very easy.

[Dave Francombe] “. I was looking at the drobo as an LTO alternative.”

Honestly, I am more scared of that thing than single drives. Single drives (even if you make a copy on to two single drives) you can take anywhere. Drobo only works with a drobo.

The cool thing about LTO is that built in to the spec is backwards compatibility. If you build an LTO device it has to have at least two versions of compatibility backwards. Now, there’s LTO 4, that means you can take an LTO2 tape and put it in any LTO4 drive and it will work. LTO drives are now at 800GB capacity. Take a look at Cache-A, https://cache-a.com/products.php They have some very cool networkable LTO drives with 1TB drives built in for a cache. Basically, you copy the files form your drive to the built in 1TB drive on the LTO. Then the LTO machine itself will back up to tape. It’s very cool. Also comes with a database to keep track of everything. LTO is an industry standard format for financial institutions and IT server rooms. It is going to be around for a long time. the cost of entry is a littel high, but the tapes are cheap.

Jeremy

[Dave Francombe]

I have a very similar system to Walter, also set up by Bob Zelin, we are about to add another 16tb drive array, but we shoot about 150 hours, and produce 65 shows a year, so scalable storage is a real concern, not just for edit, but archiving camera material. I’d love to hire a consultant, if you can suggest a good one who knows work flow, from the field through delivery, and can update our edit rooms, that would be great. Bob, is the first to admit work flow is not his thing. I just like to try and educate myself a little before I turn everything over to consultant. As you are aware, different folks like different formats, and with so many on the market I’m interested in opinions from a variety of people with real world experience. Thats why I turn here first, consultant next.

Dave