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Audio Only cross fade in X
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[Steve Connor] “Like everything it would be nice to have another option to work with.”
Well, as far as that particular issue is concerned, I don’t really see how things were that much different in 7 or elsewhere. Since, IIRC, you would have to unlink the audio from a clip to be able to do that in 7 also. Which ultimately puts you pretty much in the same spot as with X, no?
I think it’s a given that audio is one of the areas that is bound to see the most changes with the next updates. Aside from the audio-only thing, I’d love for them to e.g. re-tinker the way collapsed L and J-cuts appear visually in the timeline. And of course something along the lines of a roles based mixer. I’m mostly curious and excited to see HOW they end up doing different things, since I find their unconventional (but imho that much better) approach to certain problems and their solutions very intriguing in many cases. 🙂
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Richard Herd] “It should be DAW-style in all NLEs: audio clip collisions create an overlap audio auto-cross-fade.”
As long as it can be turned off in preferences somewhere. I want to do those manually, not have the system do it for me.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Robin S. Kurz] ” but then I can’t think of when and why I would actually want my video and audio transitions to be a different length.”
Really. So if you have, let’s say, 2 beautiful slo-mo shots of a skier and you do a 2 second dissolve between those shots, total running time of 20 seconds, and underneath it you have his thoughts as narration constructed out of 4 different audio bites, you would want to have those audio bites connected with 60 frame audio dissolves? Or are you saying IF the audio is connected to the video you would want the audio effect to match the video effect, in which case I give you the case of a 1 second dissolve between 2 scenes where you can hear the director giving the action cue just before the talent speaks in the second clip – do you really want the audio effect to match the video effect right there?
For that matter I can’t think of any time I want the length of my audio effect to be determined by the length of a video effect. Those are 2 totally separate aesthetic decisions and connecting them by the happenstance of technology that nowadays attaches the audio to the same bit of media as the video is the reason why I always detach those items as soon as I get past the assembly stage.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Which is why, if the music is your *primary* focus, you would clearly put that into the *primary* storyline and simply edit the video as connected clips.”
Yea, I don’t think people get this concept. The primary storyline is what’s driving the story. I agree with Robin, if the music is driving your story, then that’s what you should be putting on the primary storyline with everything else as a connected clip. This is a really key concept to understand when working with FCP X.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
[John Rofrano] “Yea, I don’t think people get this concept. The primary storyline is what’s driving the story. “
Except when it’s not. There are a lot of edits where both the music and the clips have equal weight. For example, if you have to edit a music track to fit the picture while also having to interactively change the picture edits. In this case it works best to have both the pictures and the music to be connected clips to a gap, until you get closer to being locked.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Herb Sevush] “Really. So if you have, let’s say,…”
Really. You describe a couple of said rare exceptions (that I too have had) that, as I’ve already said, can easily be remedied with the handles, keyframes or any one of the other various options you have in X. No biggie. No different as with any other NLE. But either way those certainly aren’t situations that one encounters constantly, though something tells me you’re going to say that they of course are. Probably even daily, of course. 😀
And if you’re actually constantly detaching the audio, then no, you certainly should not be using X. But rather something else that actually makes sense in the context of that workflow. Which you appear to have found. So I really have to wonder why you’re even here in this forum, other than to sing the praises of other/your NLE and continuously proclaim how insufficient and useless FCP X is. At least I have yet to see anything from you. In which case I think if anyone actually cared to hear it, they’d probably be in the respective other forum(s), no? (purely rhetorical question btw)
Oh, and btw: if ”… underneath it you have his thoughts as narration constructed out of 4 different audio bites” as you describe, then those would be completely autonomous and not affected by any VIDEO (or audio) transitions that I applied to the slomos. Are you sure you know how X works? Because I don’t see how that scenario is in any way relevant in the context of this audio-only fade topic. As for the other scenario, see above.
– RK
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[Herb Sevush] “Or are you saying IF the audio is connected to the video you would want the audio effect to match the video effect, in which case I give you the case of a 1 second dissolve between 2 scenes where you can hear the director giving the action cue just before the talent speaks in the second clip – do you really want the audio effect to match the video effect right there?”
Good point. It really depends on WHAT you are cutting. When I’m cutting live events I almost always use cuts only with very few dissolves if any and for those dissolves the audio and video almost always match. When I was working on the PBS series “Painting & Travel with Roger and Sarah Bansemer”, the show was largely a demo of painting and long dissolves between angle shots of a particular technique always had the audio dialog disconnected. I get the feeling that in Herb’s case, what you see is often not connected to what you hear and so disconnecting video and audio makes sense so that the audio experience, which often requires continuity, is not affected by the video experience which can be temporally different at times on purpose.
Given that, I still have no problem creating audio fades that are different than video fades in FCP X, or L & J cuts for that matter, because the audio handles make this very easy.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
[Robin S. Kurz] “So I really have to wonder why you’re even here in this forum”
Well… it wouldn’t be much of a “debate” forum if we all agreed. 😀
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
[Robin S. Kurz] “You describe a couple of said rare exceptions”
One man’s exceptions are another man’s daily bread. I will state this again, I can’t ever imagine a situation in which I routinely wanted my audio effects to be locked to my video effects. In rare exceptions this might happen, but as a matter of course, it’s outside my realm of experience.
[Robin S. Kurz] “And if you’re actually constantly detaching the audio, then no, you certainly should not be using X”
Well then, we both came to the same conclusion.
[Robin S. Kurz] ” I really have to wonder why you’re even here in this forum, other than to sing the praises of other/your NLE and continuously proclaim how insufficient and useless FCP X is”
I need the eggs.
[Robin S. Kurz] ” Are you sure you know how X works?”
No, I’m quite sure I don’t know exactly how X works, since we’ve both determined that it doesn’t fit my workflow. This part of the thread was part of an explanation of why some editor’s decision not to use X might actually be logical as opposed to a genetic disorder.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Oliver Peters] “There are a lot of edits where both the music and the clips have equal weight.”
Just had that a couple of weeks ago, too, yes. A music video with a long intro and outro. In which case I actually had intro and outro in the primary, but during the musical section I had the music in the primary. Which admittedly made for an unusual edit “feel”, but worked great overall. Was able to do things faster, that would have also been and even huger pain elsewhere imho.
Which is not to say that one can’t do differently, just I personally found that to be the most efficient and flexible. I personally think it would have been an exponentially greater task doing it the other way around, given the amount of revisions I had to deal with, knowing no matter what I did to the music section *nothing* would go out of sync, as well as everywhere else. Best of both worlds, it was brilliant. In fact I got a taste of the opposite after I overwrote the video to the timeline and moved the music, as you described… and a last few, unexpected changes came in. What a difference.
Just sayin’. In the end: to each his own.
– RK
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