Audio Mix Window

[James Ewart]

To have one bit of software the accomplished both to a highly professional level is, perhaps, a little over ambitious (or greedy even)?

So where does FCPX stop before it hands over the audio baton?

Perhaps right where it is?

Maybe we should be content with a whole new NLE that takes us just so far before we hand over to Pro Tools, Sadie, Logic?

Maybe ditto Color?

Incidentally I do not know anybody (in my circle of colleagues and friends) who uses Logic for audio post here in the UK (Music composition yes). I guess people do but to what extent?

Do you people use Logic for audio post much?

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk

[Oliver Peters]

“Regardless when you go into the negative you definitely are adding the opposite color on the clip. Why not represent that on the board?”

I think it’s worth noting that color wheels are only one of many ways to change color balance. SpeedGrade and Resolve both also use RGB sliders that move in positive and negative directions. The results are the same as a color wheel, but obviously they recognize that sliders are more comfortable and more accurate for many operators. Think of camera paint control systems. RGB rotating pots. No color wheels there. While color wheels are popular, they are by no means the only way and might not even be the predominate way that color is adjusted. Maybe Apple was simply playing to the majority.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Oliver Peters]

“Incidentally I do not know anybody (in my circle of colleagues and friends) who uses Logic for audio post here in the UK (Music composition yes). I guess people do but to what extent?
Do you people use Logic for audio post much?”

Generally the market here is dominated by Pro Tools. I do work with a couple of mixers who have shifted to Logic. When I see that, it’s generally someone who also works with music composition. Nevertheless, LPX is a very strong audio post tool.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Franz Bieberkopf]

[James Ewart] “Do you people use Logic for audio post much?”

James,

My anecdote comes from the single Logic user that I’ve handed off to over the past 15 years (all others used Pro Tools).

He was quite a devoted Logic user and runs a local user-group. He’s started using Pro Tools in the past few years out of a need for compatibility and a concern for the direction that Apple is taking its software.

Franz.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Oliver, I get that. And there is nothing sacred about using a color wheel. All I’m suggesting is adding the complementary opposite colors on the bottom half of the color board. The sliders have these and they are self-explanatory. More so than the board.

I’m going to have to look into davinci lite to further my understanding of color. When I reach a point of greater ease with FCP X, that will be my next step.

Of course whether its sound or color or motion control all of that would require round tripping which is another work flow issue to learn.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Oliver Peters] “Of course it is. That’s really all there is to color correction.

Agreed. The point I was trying to make was that you were drawing a comparison between the color board and the Grahn app because they both work on a +/- system but the Grahn app still maintains the relationship between primary and complimentary colors in the UI where as the color board does not. I’m sure you’d agree that being aware of the R/C, G/M, and B/Y relationship is fundamental if one wants to understand why the image is changing when the controls are operated.

The concept of color wheels as a UI element was introduced with Avid Symphony, but it’s not essential. “

I didn’t mean to imply that the color wheel is the only way to skin the cat, just that I think the color wheel is a better visual aid than the color board.

[Oliver Peters]

[Andrew Kimery] ” I’m sure you’d agree that being aware of the R/C, G/M, and B/Y relationship is fundamental if one wants to understand why the image is changing when the controls are operated”

Sure. Understanding the fundamental concepts always improves the odds of success. 😉

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Andrew Kimery] “I didn’t mean to imply that the color wheel is the only way to skin the cat, just that I think the color wheel is a better visual aid than the color board.”

For someone that doesn’t understand the color wheel, they could easily open the color board, open a vector scope (which is essentially a color wheel) note the position (red starts at 0 degrees and ends at 360, which means red on both the left and right side are exactly the same) and then use the percentage to show what exactly the color board is doing. You can choose a percentage, and then move the degrees around form left to right and you’d see that the color goes right around the wheel in succession.

If the color board had the complementary color underneath it (instead of minus the “positive” color) it would be a flat color wheel. Even the puck highlights change to a big minus sign and show the complimentary color. I think it would be less intuitive to show the complementary color underneath, even though it is technically “accurate”. What the Color Board shows is not inaccurate (non-naan).

While it is an “unconventional” UI, I don’t think it’s as far off from a color wheel as it looks at first glance. You are still plotting points around the wheel. You are hanging the map on the wall instead of spinning the globe. Either way, you can still show someone how to get from one ocean to the other, and how much easier it became once the panama canal was built. There, have some more crappy metaphors.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Jeremy Garchow] “For someone that doesn’t understand the color wheel, they could easily open the color board, open a vector scope (which is essentially a color wheel) note the position (red starts at 0 degrees and ends at 360, which means red on both the left and right side are exactly the same) and then use the percentage to show what exactly the color board is doing. You can choose a percentage, and then move the degrees around form left to right and you’d see that the color goes right around the wheel in succession.”

If someone can understand how a rectangular color board corresponds to a color wheel-like circular scope I think they can understand an actual color wheel. 😉

I think the color board adds an unnecessary layer of abstraction to something pretty simple and basic. Using the color board, if you think the image is too yellow overall you put the global puck on yellow and drag down into ‘minus’ yellow. If you go far enough the image will look very blue. Why does ‘minus’ yellow make the image blue one might ask? The color board UI doesn’t correspond to the changes you see in the image.

Now to use a color wheel to perform the same task. The image has too much yellow so drag the indicator at the center of the wheel away from yellow (not too complicated IMO) and if you drag it far enough the image will look very blue. But on the color wheel dragging away from yellow means dragging towards blue so the yellow/blue relationship that user is seeing on screen is also represented in the GUI.

I feel like X’s color board is a solution in search of a problem.