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Audio Mix Window
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Interesting thread.
As I think back to the hundreds of jobs I ran through FCP7, I cannot ever remember using the mixer in the system. My jobs were mostly spots and I cut with scratch tracks and temp music tracks. Upon client approval, the spot was sent to an audio house for VO record, music and mix. Back to me (or a finisher) for layback. Or I get a finished audio track to cut to. So to me, an audio mixer is way down on the list and the lack of one is not much of a consequence at all in X. I would rather see tighter integration with Motion and Resolve before an audio mixer. Guess it’s all about ones particular workflow.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Oliver Peters] “I think Apple’s engineers would argue the + or – of a specific color is more intuitive than the color wheel model. Take a look at lab color timing, which is how the Dale Grahn Color iPad app is designed. + values are listed as RGB and – values are CMY, but the important part is that the buttons are designed as + or – and not color wheels.
https://www.dalegrahncolor.com“
I’m sure Apple engineers think it is more intuitive (and it fits better into the limited UI of FCP X), but it’s not like the color wheel is rocket science to use. Basically, if you want more red in an image you push the little indicator towards the red section of the wheel. If you want less red in an image you push the indicator away from the red section of the wheel (which just happens to be towards blue/green aka cyan). If someone wants to understand more about color theory (so they know why they are doing something rather than just how to do it) then the color wheel shows the relationship between colors that the color board does not.
I think the color board does more to deny users of useful information than it does to lower the barrier of entry for coloring a shot. I was taught the color wheel in grade school art classes and in the introduction to photography class I took in college. Basically, anytime I was in an educational setting that had to do with using colors out came the wheel so we could see the relationships between colors. Since it was a teaching tool I think that’s why it was a no brainer to turn it into a UI convention in color grading applications.
With regards to the Grahn app, it seems based on primary and complimentary colors, and looks to be a bit of a throw back to the point system used in analog color timing (in the app description it says “Leaving behind color wheels, scopes and other digital conveniences…”). Also, given the limited screen real estate of an iPad having a +/- system could work out better, in terms of UI, than jabbing at a color wheel with a fat finger or having a herd of tiny sliders that need to be manipulated.
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[Craig Alan] “Both and not either or. + – would be more intuitive if lowering the puck in the green area just decreased green saturation. But your image turns redder. Therefore its more intuitive to use both – and the color space gradually shifting to red. “
I’m not sure that the way the puck in the “color” tab works, exactly equates to how the 3-way in FCP 7 works. I haven’t really tested them side-by-side with the same media. It seems that FCP X works more like temp/tint sliders do in other tools. For example, open the scope and set it to a parade display so you see RGB. Now take the midrange puck and go all the way to the left so you are limited by the boundary of the swatch. Now move up and down. You’ll notice the G,B waveforms move together and in an inverse direction to the travel of the R waveform.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Scott Witthaus] “My jobs were mostly spots and I cut with scratch tracks and temp music tracks. Upon client approval, the spot was sent to an audio house for VO record, music and mix. Back to me (or a finisher) for layback. Or I get a finished audio track to cut to”
Classic commercial workflow. OTOH, if you do long-form for the web (5-10 min.) – something that’s a sweet spot for X – you end up doing everything yourself.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Andrew Kimery] “With regards to the Grahn app, it seems based on primary and complimentary colors, and looks to be a bit of a throw back to the point system used in analog color timing (in the app description it says “Leaving behind color wheels, scopes and other digital conveniences…”).”
Of course it is. That’s really all there is to color correction. The concept of color wheels as a UI element was introduced with Avid Symphony, but it’s not essential. And not all color wheels work the same. That’s easiest to see in Looks, which offers two different 3-way tools – a 3-way and a Colorista tool. Both give you much different results. Or in Resolve, where you have log and 3-way wheels. Or the 3-way in Aperture versus the 3-way in FCP 7.
Any given primary color correction tool is not adding or removing color, it’s shifting the balance. IOW, it’s changing the cast of a segment of the video signal as delineated by luma ranges – another thing you have no control over in X. 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Just a thought…
With the strong “global” nature of the market for X, I suspect that one aspect that the software designers might be chewing over is less how to provide the complex “heavy mix” audio tools that the traditional motion picture sound designer requires – and more how to enable stuff such as multiple language substitution. Which is kinda in the Roles wheelhouse. The former helps one class of editor do a better job. The latter helps the project owner make more money – and therefore earn a better chance to get to do another project?
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “With the strong “global” nature of the market for X …”
Bill,
This seems to have been a conversation I missed.
Franz.
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Thanks Oliver,
I tried this and see the pattern.
And yes I see the same pattern (like two ships passing in the night) in Aperture.
In Aperture the temperature slide will form this pattern.
The tint seems to increase/decrease a color cast but only one of the ships moves.
So how does this differ from a hue correction on a traditional color wheel. You move from one color to another so it must decrease one as you increase the other, no?
It would be nice if there was a pop up that lets you know what exactly the program is doing as you make the adjustment.
What happens in the RGB scope when on a traditional color wheel you move away from red?
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Craig Alan] “So how does this differ from a hue correction on a traditional color wheel. You move from one color to another so it must decrease one as you increase the other, no?”
When you say hue correction, do you mean a color correction plug-in with a single wheel? This is just overall white balance with a hue shift.
The differences I see in various 3-ways is that some use the push-pull model we’ve been discussing in this thread. Others simply wash/tint the image with the color that you are increasing. IOW, more of one color without less of the color that’s opposite.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Right so in FCP X’s board, one color is added as one is subtracted. If I had an active copy of FCP 7 I’d open up the RGB scope and see what that behavior is. What’s ironic about this is the icon Apple uses for the board is a color wheel. I would think that means that it is doing the same thing as a traditional adjustment but a different UI.
Regardless when you go into the negative you definitely are adding the opposite color on the clip. Why not represent that on the board?
When X first came out and I played with it while still working in 7, I remember being able to use a color wheel in X, I think maybe as an option in one of the filters. But I can’t seem to find that with a goole search or playing with the filters. I do see a third party one that does it, but I never got any third party apps for X.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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