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Audio export to file problem at about 20 minutes
Hi all,
I am new to this forum. Trying to help out our Access Studio staff solve a LONG standing problem. We have had a Media 100 system since the latest computer was a G3. We now run a second M100 on a G4 too (which dates it too I guess). We have had an audio export problem for as long as I can recall.
I think the issue comes when trying to export a complete program, (or just the audio) to a file that can be used to burn a DVD, etc. My understanding is that analog output to a standalone DVD burner or VCR works OK (and that is how we get by), but when we try to output to a file the audio breaks down somewhere around 20 minutes into the show. The reports of the 20 minute time frame have remainded consistent across both systems and all the software versions.
We have seen this on the G3 under OS/9 and on the G4 under everything up to the current OS X Tiger (with current updates to M100 to match).
These are from recent exchanges about the problem:
“… I have been having some issues getting clean files to output from the Media 100 Program. What’s happening is the same thing that has always happened. When I try to export something out of Media 100 as a stand alone self contained file longer than 20 or so minutes, the video process fine, but there is always an audio error. The file will burn, but of course if there’s an audio error (usually normal audio up to the error point and then a horrible scratchy noise after that point)…”
“… I don
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9 Replies
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Bob,
Are you using 8.2.3? Which Mac (G4 p-speed), QT version, RAM and Media 100 version are you using if not 8.2.3? What’s the audio’s origination, CD, Capture from tape, DV capture?
Dave
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[David C.] “Name: David C.
Date: Feb 13, 2007 at 4:45:30 pm
Subject: Re: Audio export to file problem at about 20 minutesBob,
Are you using 8.2.3? Which Mac (G4 p-speed), QT version, RAM and Media 100 version are you using if not 8.2.3? What’s the audio’s origination, CD, Capture from tape, DV capture?
Dave”
Dave,
In the most up to date case – the G4 – we are running 8.2.3a now. But we have seen the same symptoms on all the prior versions too. The G3 is still on OS/9 and V7.(current)
I don’t have the details right at hand – the Mac is the last one that could boot OS/9 as I recall (silver doors?). I think it was towards the top end of speed in that line.
The capture has traditionaly been mainly from tape (S-VHS mostly). Recently we have been using DV too. Apparently the same problems in all cases.
I have to wonder if there is something systemic – something about the way it is being used or some unrecognized assumption about the right way to do things since it has been so consistent for so long, but I know they have tried everything they can think of…
Bob
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Two additional questions: What sample rate do you use? We use 48kHz all the time and never have seen this problem. Do you use 44.1kHz? And do you re-use media files over and over again, e.g. could it be that there is a damaged audio media file that you carry from project to project?
What happens if you e.g. try to export the finished timeline in e.g. 15 minute audio parts (using the “Range” setting in the export window after setting mark in and out on your timeline)? Will it crash/stop always on the same position?
One other thing you could try is to download the Media 100 producer trial version from the Borisfx website and install it on your G4. Then open a copy of your project (and yes, you definitely want to make a copy of your project, bin and timeline files!!!) in Producer and try exporting from there, just to figure out if this maybe was something that got fixed in the lastest Media 100 code. As I said, we never saw that under V8.2.x or earlier, but maybe it is related to something else that has been fixed in the meantime. -
[Floh] “Name: Floh
Date: Feb 13, 2007 at 5:29:22 pm
Subject: Re: Audio export to file problem at about 20 minutesTwo additional questions: What sample rate do you use? We use 48kHz all the time and never have seen this problem. Do you use 44.1kHz? And do you re-use media files over and over again, e.g. could it be that there is a damaged audio media file that you carry from project to project?
What happens if you e.g. try to export the finished timeline in e.g. 15 minute audio parts (using the “Range” setting in the export window after setting mark in and out on your timeline)? Will it crash/stop always on the same position?
One other thing you could try is to download the Media 100 producer trial version from the Borisfx website and install it on your G4. Then open a copy of your project (and yes, you definitely want to make a copy of your project, bin and timeline files!!!) in Producer and try exporting from there, just to figure out if this maybe was something that got fixed in the lastest Media 100 code. As I said, we never saw that under V8.2.x or earlier, but maybe it is related to something else that has been fixed in the meantime.”I will need to pass those questions on to the folks at the studio for full answers.
As to reusing files, I don’t think so. Maybe some reuse, sometimes, here and there, but I don’t think there could be anything that would have been consistent over the long time we have been seeing this.
Bob
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By the way – really off the wall – I have been thinking about the consistent timing and trying to think of something that relates to a time frame like 20 minutes.
I wonder if somehow there is a conflict somewhere between drop frame and non-drop frame that eventually adds up to a point where it triggers this symptom. I can’t imagine what it would be, but I don’t know the software that well …
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Hey Bob, That’s a very mysterious problem. I just exported a 12 hr program in 2 hour segments and it worked beautifully. The only time I’ve ever had audio export crashes is when there was a corrupt audio file (they’re hard to find but not impossible) or there was just enough room on the target drive for the video (which exports first) but not for the audio. Hope you can work this out! Kind Regards! Chris K.
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Hi-
Danielle, Public Access Coordinator from GCTV here. As he mentioned earlier, Bob is our Cable Committee Chairman and has been helping me to try to answer this export issue that’s been ongoing for years.
To answer your questions, we do use 48 hz as our sample rate and no, the file is not one that we reuse or carry over from project to project. The original footage was taped on a brand new mini dv tape and imported in the usual manner. I have not tried exporting things out in 15 minute segments- I’ll give that a shot and see what happens. It is possible this audio file is damaged somehow, but I have seen this on countless programs we’ve tried to export. In fact after this particualr 27 minute program did not work, I exported a 14 1/2 minute program perfectly fine with great audio. I do 30 second and minute opens and 2 or 3 minute PSA’s all the time without issue. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the problem other than if the program itself is longer than 20 or so minutes, the audio will not export cleanly. Strange. Thanks for the input.
Danielle
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Could it be ram related – or a limitation of file size on the target drive (nothing larger than 2gig) etc? Just some random thoughts! Kind Regards, Chris K
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[topher944] “Name: topher944
Date: Feb 19, 2007 at 12:43:13 am
Subject: Re: Audio export to file problem at about 20 minutesCould it be ram related – or a limitation of file size on the target drive (nothing larger than 2gig) etc? Just some random thoughts! Kind Regards, Chris K”
It could be of course. But I have tried to look at those factors as well as we can with no luck so far. I would think if those were likely candidates that people here would be familiar with the problem.
The G4 was specifically purchased as a system for running M100 and although I do not recall how much memory it has (maybe Danielle can remind us) I have the sense that it is reasonably well equipped (in fact the G3 actually came directly to us from Media 100 so it should have been a reasonable system too).
On the file size question, I know some issues like that come up for PC/Window systems of certain vintages, but I am not clear if there are any limitations like that on the Mac, particularly under OS X. Can anyone expound on what limits do exist? I think we are using pretty ordinary parameters for inputting and outputting so it would seem likely lots of people outputting similar length programs would get similar sized files and so run into similar problems if it was OS limitiations on file sizes.
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