At the end-of-the-day… AVCHD / Pro Res versus HDV.

[Shane Ross]

It is best to work with HDV as ProRes anyway. But the biggest thing is that the GOP of HDV, the MPEG-2…SUCKS! It is horrid horrid horrid. I get the worst artifacting I have ever had to deal with, and people just go “eh, that’s HDV.”

https://lfhd.net/2009/03/26/hdv-pixelization/

AVCHD is GOP, but BETTER GOP. MPEG-4 vs old old MPEG-2.

I’d got he AVCHD route. Native HDV editing isn’t all that it is cracked up to be. And the HDV codec is just plain awful.

[Wayne Williams] “I have an iMac vintage late 2008 dial core”

INTEL? Then it will work with AVCHD, convert it to ProRes.

But then ProRes takes up a LOT of space vs HDV, and with an iMac, you are limited to firewire drives, so not much space…2TB MAX REALLY. Is that enough?

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Michael Gissing]

Many here recommend converting HDV to ProRes which can be done during capture,but with the penalty of losing original timecode. (search for Chris Poisson’s tutorial here at the COW).

That said, I have done many docos that were captured and edited as HDV codec without any real issues. The final grade in Color ends up rendering the grade as ProRes so at the time it matters, a better codec with 10 bit resolution is used.

So there is no real difference in terms of codec conversions. The big question is whether you prefer the archive method of backup drives versus tape. The other issue for me would be which camera has the best features, lenses and ergonomics.

Workflow, although different, is solid for either format.

[Sam Ellens]

I’m doing some work on a mixed xdcam and hdv project. Hdv is just plain gross. Colors are very muddled, even things in focus look fuzzy because of artifacts. The best that can be said for it is it’s a step up from dv. I’m no huge fan of cheap avc cameras either, but it should be miles better.

[Chi-ho Lee]

You can keep your source TC if you go thru HD-SDI into a HD card. I believe you lose TC only if you go thru firewire.

Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com

[Andrew Kimery]

Chi-Ho Lee,
Correct, you can keep your TC if you capture that way but then you need to buy a box that can take the camera’s Firewire and/or HDMI out and turn it into HD-SDI and RS-422. Convergent Designs makes some and depending on what features you need/want they are around $1k.

Michael,
I too have work w/a ton of HDV material and the biggest limiting factor mainly that it was shot in HDV, on a lower end camera in the first place. Once it’s in Color for grading, or if you set your timeline to ProRes all of the recompression happens in a much better codec than HDV.

Also, another downside to capturing HDV as ProRes over FW is that you’ll end up w/a ProRes file that is 1440×1080 w/unsquare pixels (the same native res of 1080 HDV) and that’s a little screwy because, aside from this, ProRes is always square pixels. Color will accept this file fine but it will make your Color renders in 1920×1080 so they’ll have to be rendered when they go back to the 1440×1080 timeline you were cutting in. This can either be a none issue or a headache just depending on what you’ve got going on in your timeline. Finally, recapturing HDV w/frame accuracy has been almost impossible in my experience.

A lot of it also comes down to your workflow. If you shoot HDV you have master tapes you can just put on the shelf. If you shoot to cards you have to consider what your asset management solutions are going to be.

-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)

[Chris Borjis]

wayne I have the nxcam camera and just found out you have to have
fcp 7 minimum. otherwise the transcode will have no audio in it even
though it plays fine in the log & transfer player.

[Trevor Ward]

I’m using a 2 1/2 year old MBP 2.16 intel core 2 duo. I use AVCHD. I’ve got the new FCP 7 and it allows you to use the ProRes LT or ProRes Proxy when transcoding. This takes less space and less time. I can transcode 20 minutes of footage into ProRes in about 20 minutes. I can transcode it into ProRes Proxy in less than 10 minutes.

As far as quality, I’m not an engineer, so I can’t really comment from personal experience. Image quality is not only a factor of the codec, but also of the camera as a whole: imager, lens, etc. borrow the two cameras in question, and do a side by side comparison.

As far as cameras, go, I agree with the other person who said you should get the camera that offers the features and performance you want if you don’t care about workflow.

-trevor ward
Red Eye Film Co.
http://www.redeyefilmco.com
orlando, fl

[Michael Gissing]

[Trevor Ward] “I agree with the other person who said you should get the camera that offers the features and performance you want if you don’t care about workflow.”

To clarify, I said that workflow was solid for either format. I would never say don’t care about workflow. Indeed I spent most of my time advising the opposite. The point is that lenses and ergonomics are very important factors too.

Re Shane’s comments about HDV GOP, I think the difference between Mpeg2 or 4 is not great above 20 megabits per sec, so the real difference is between the data rates of HDV versus AVCHD (25 Vs 35). Yes it is a real consideration if you shoot fast action material. That said, may people want to shoot 24p which is also a poor choice for fast action material.