-
ASC CDL worflow with the Alexa camera
Hello,
I apologize if this feels like a reposted question in this forum. I’ve searched for answers and I’m still not 100% sure that my workflow will be ok.
In the next week, I will be receiving Apple Prores 4444 files that will be shot on an Alexa camera. The files are going to be delivered on a drive in the .mov format. From what I can tell, they can import and play in Final Cut with no problem.
Along with the .mov files, there will be the following:
ASC CDL
LUT files
I’ve never dealt with ASC CDL or LUTs in Final Cut Pro.
From what I understand, the ASC CDL, which is the color decision list from the cinematographer, will NOT import into Final Cut Pro. Is that correct? We have an Avid here as well, which I am told can import ASC CDL’s, but I’m not sure. Our big issue here is that we have to send the edits to our graphics people early because it is shot on green screen, and the shots need to be color timed beforehand because they are massive renders with heavy graphics.
They are recording arri log C to apple pro res 4:4:4:4.
On the drive, there will be:
cam_a .mov files
LUTs
ScreengrabsI am told that the LUTs are an ASC CDL type made with a Truelight system.
So, here are my questions:
1. Do we need to purchase a separate program to import the ASC CDL, like deVinci or Lustre?
2. Other than the ASC CDL, does my workflow sound correct (i.e. import .mov files into Final Cut, color correct, then send to after effects)?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me, it is really, really appreciated.
Jonathan
-
21 Replies
-
To get the ball rolling for discussion, here is what I recommend:
FCP and Avid MC currently have no way of natively importing LUTs on ARRI material.
Thus, we need to use a plugin. Nick Shaw has one that works well for FCP, and may solve your problem:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/294/217
His plugins use specific LUTs, and one may be close enough for your purpose.
Short of that, you would have to use an online system (a la Baselight. etc) which can accept the LUTS, then export the baked in LUT .mov, and edit with that.
Personally, I would use Nick Shaw’s Plugin, edit with the LOGC “look” filter, then perform an online elsewhere and link to the ASC LUTs.
Good Luck!
~Michael
.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammesHear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .
-
You can download Colorista Free from Red Giant, which will let you input CDL values. This would work in FCP.
The reality, though, is that if you mainly need to generate a viable “one light” appearance to the log-c images. This can be done with the FCP color correctors or Media Composer’s color correction mode. Both permit real-time playback (unrendered) while editing if you have a beefy machine. This is generally not true of any of the actual LUTs, like the Nick Shaw FCP plug-ins. Those are great, but not accelerated, so you’d have to bake them into the image before editing.
I’m currently doing a large commercial job (ProRes444 in FCP) and I’m only using the FCP color corrector. I just adjusted a good average setting and apply it to clips as I go. Then tweak a bit as needed. The agency folks are perfectly fine with this for the offline. The final color grade will be done out-of-house anyway, so this is really just for client approval of the rough cut.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
As always, excellent info, Oliver.
In the past few months, I’ve noticed a trend with virtually all of the Alexa projects I’ve consulted on….the almost mandated use of LUTs during offline. Rec709, color filters, etc are just not enough. I can only assume that the level of DPs using the camera are used to a more ‘perfect’ offline experience. Id be fine with a Rec709 baked into the ProRes, then a color grade on the ARRIRAW during online. I’m also assuming that due to the development of the Red Giant plugin, Nick Shaws development (plus others) many users are seeing this ‘mandate’ through offline (or editorial) as well.
Its my understanding that the Alexa may have the framework to take 3rd party LUTs, but it obviously has not been implemented….yet. ‘Course, we can always hope FCPX or a future version of Media Composer accepts LUTs in real time!
-Michael
.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammesHear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .
-
Yes, I would presume TV show and feature DPs are picky. They have been in my experience. These projects go through more hands and they are concerned about everyone applying their own oddball correction on the image. In my case, these projects are commercials with DPs and clients who know and trust me, including for color correction. These DPs are no less picky, but there’s more familiarity with each other.
There are two straight forward, low-cost approaches. The first is to use the Nick Shaw plug-ins and bake these into files that are then used for offline. The second is to dual-record. Go Log-C to the SxS cards in camera and Rec.709 out the SDI port to an external recorder for offline.
OTOH, I also see complaints from DPs (especially on RED jobs), where the in-camera looks are simply used and rendered and then subsequent color correction is done on top of this. In the case of RED, they will often create a look on set as a “suggestion”, which isn’t intended as the final.
Since I have a long history with post on film-acquired jobs, I view the ‘color-correction for editorial’ issue as the same as a one-light film transfer. It’s just a temporary, neutral grade that isn’t intended to be the final look.
However, the issue would be easily resolved if ARRI simply released a set of plug-ins for all the major NLEs that provided a Log-C to 709 conversion. That’s what Nick Shaw’s do, except that his aren’t officially authorized or engineered by ARRI. They are his own curves.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I would also like to point out that while you may feel a DP is picky or concerned who his involved in the look of a show, it is often times that an experienced DP wants to make sure that a non-log look is presented to the director on the monitors while shooting.
When I was shooting film I would have my loader write “print for future employment” on the camera report, sarcastic but got the point across.
Its like showing a work in progress, people will say the get it but they usually don’t.
So a simple lut is usually a way to not have to continually explain the look of a log image.Todd McMullen
Flip Flop Films
Austin
http://www.toddmcmullen.com -
[todd mcmullen] ” it is often times that an experienced DP wants to make sure that a non-log look is presented to the director on the monitors while shooting.”
With the Alexa, that’s simply a matter of setting the camera to output with a 709 profile when feeding the monitor.
It’s more of a concern about how to properly handle the image in post. Right now there are no efficient ways with most NLEs to apply a consistent LUT. All approaches require that a LUT is baked in or they tax the resources of the NLE. It becomes a trade-off depending on time and budget.
This will continue to be an issue until most NLEs adopt the ability to apply and/or alter source settings on ingest or imported media clips. NLEs have adopted an SDK with RED that has become the starting point, but it needs to become a standard for all NLEs. The same issue applies to Sony’s S-log, as well.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
PS: The original question was how to use a CDL during editorial. Let me suggest that this is a workflow, which is based on film dailies.
In other words, the Alexa files + CDLs need to go to a color correction session, which can accept the CDL. The Alexa files are then exported as “baked-in” files or are transferred to tape with the applied correction. Then the tapes or “dailies” files go to the editors.
This is an area where Foundry STORM or Pomfort Silverstack will become useful in the near future.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Thanks a lot guys. Our biggest issue is that we’re supposed to finish here, not go to a CC house. They don’t have that in their budget for post, sadly. But all of your info has been extremely helpful. Might end up going with the Nick Shaw plugin and just work with that.
-
[Jonathan Holm] “Might end up going with the Nick Shaw plugin and just work with that.”
Sounds like a plan. You might want to review the workflow I described here:
https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/arri-alexa-post-part-2/
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
The one issue I seem to see here is that the Dp used the true light system here to establish a look.
If you by-pass his look with a plug in from someone else you are going to be compromising a look that they might have been going for. It sounds like a communication gap. The Dp was probably under the impression the luts would be recalled and used in the edit. Or maybe he thought there would be a grading session.
Interesting situation indeed.
I just finished shooting a pilot for NBC with the Alexa. I established a look in ny on a bones system but have to grade in la on a davinci. So I will have to have the ny post house send over my dailies lut files from there system that can be read on the la system. Just to have a base to work with. But I also confirmed that I would have a grading session before we started shooting. So I am covered either way and so are the post
I think workflow communication is essential in most digital productions these days.
BestTodd McMullen
Flip Flop Films
Austin
http://www.toddmcmullen.com
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up