Apple ProRes 422 Render Times

[Chris Poisson]

Hey Wayne,

As Walter says, HDV captured as ProRes is full raster, even when captured via FW. I use this daily on my MBP and I don’t experience long render times at all.

Have a wonderful day.

[Mark Maness]

[Chris Poisson] “As Walter says, HDV captured as ProRes is full raster, even when captured via FW. I use this daily on my MBP and I don’t experience long render times at all. “

I understand and wish we could BUT how do you capture HDV, convert to ProRes and have it be full raster since HDV is 1440×1080. The conversion on the fly is always 1440×1080, not the full raster 1920×1080.

Besides, it won’t match the specs of XDCAM HD if its full raster 1920×1080, unless we capture all of it using the Kona card and ProRes.

You see my dilemma.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com

[Chris Poisson]

Hmmm,

It seems that when ProRes clips are in the browser, the read as 1440, but when opened in QT they show up as 1920, so I’m confused. Still, I don’t have the render times you do, stumped, sorry.

Have a wonderful day.

[Gary Adcock]

[walter biscardi] “It IS? It shouldn’t be. ProRes is full raster. When we convert HDV (or DVCPro HD) to ProRes through the Kona 3 it goes full raster 1920×1080 as it should. “

Wayne is correct

When it is a software conversion inside of FCP or compressor.
It is one of my biggest complaints that the software conversions in the FCS suite maintain the original aspect ratio.

gary adcock
Studio37
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[David Roth weiss]

[gary adcock] “Wayne is correct “

Yes he is. I too will confirm that HDV transcoded via firewire is not full raster, but 1440×1080 or 1280×720, which scales-up for display exactly like the HDV from which it is captured.

David Roth Weiss
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[Mark Maness]

Thanks, Gary and David…

Yes, it is pretty messed up when you have to convert HD to ProRes422 via firewire. Thus, the long render times.

I’m assuming here that FCP doesn’t realize the difference in the frame sizes and assumes that 1440×1080 is a flavor of HDV so when it renders, it also conforms the video. This is just a theory of mine, though.

Kinda puts a hole into HDV-ProRes422 conversion to save time and quality. Now, you still have the improved quality in your renders but the time wasted is probably the same as working entirely in HDV and conforming for output. At least, it is for me.

Thanks to all who have chimed in on this. Maybe, just maybe someone from Apple has seen this and maybe by some strange fluke (just a dream) is working on a fix to help this out.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com

[Walter Biscardi]

[Wayne Carey] “Kinda puts a hole into HDV-ProRes422 conversion to save time and quality. Now, you still have the improved quality in your renders but the time wasted is probably the same as working entirely in HDV and conforming for output. At least, it is for me.

Thanks to all who have chimed in on this. Maybe, just maybe someone from Apple has seen this and maybe by some strange fluke (just a dream) is working on a fix to help this out.
“

One more reason I’m glad I have the AJA Kona boards here. I had no idea the Firewire conversion didn’t go full raster on the conversion. Kind of destroys the whole point of ProRes being full raster, 10bit codec.

I’m telling you Wayne, just pick up a new Kona LHi board and run your HDV through that to convert to ProRes and you’ll wonder why you didn’t do this sooner. We have two Sony M15U HDV decks that run through AJA Converters to turn the analog Component / Stereo Audio to an HD-SDI stream for ingest into our Kona 3’s and it’s perfect. With the LHi you don’t even need the converters, just go straight into the board via analog if you have to.

What you’ll get is super clean, super easy to work with ProRes HD files that are full raster. And as I said earlier, it’s a perfect workflow for broadcast, episodic television. We do this weekly here in our shop.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
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[Mark Maness]

[walter biscardi] “I had no idea the Firewire conversion didn’t go full raster on the conversion. Kind of destroys the whole point of ProRes being full raster, 10bit codec.”

Yes, it does… BUT in one way HDV is full compatible with XDCAM HD 35mb VBR. This is a good thing. Now, if Apple could just speed up the render times, everything would be OK with me.

The only time this affects anyone would be mixing XDHD 35mb with HDV. Obviously, we are an extremely small segment that Apple didn’t see a need to optimize ProRes422 in this situation.

Typically, Walter, we do ingest thru the Kona cards into ProRes or DVCProHD, but when there is a shortage of time or large amount of footage, there is a need to capture thru firewire for speed, or so we thought.

[walter biscardi] “We have two Sony M15U HDV decks that run through AJA Converters to turn the analog Component / Stereo Audio to an HD-SDI stream for ingest into our Kona 3’s and it’s perfect.”

This is exactly our setup, too. Any new systems that we build will more than likely include the LHi card for this reason.

[walter biscardi] “What you’ll get is super clean, super easy to work with ProRes HD files that are full raster. And as I said earlier, it’s a perfect workflow for broadcast, episodic television. We do this weekly here in our shop”

We, too, are looking into this workflow for our full time workflow.

Thanks, Walter.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com