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APPLE: PLEASE ADDRESS LA USER GROUP REQUEST: IMPROVED AUXILIARY TIMECODE
PLEASE FORWARD TO FINAL CUT PRO SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS
Many of us in the Los Angeles Final Cut Pro User Group and other forums have been talking about this for years. I do a lot of music video editing. One of my major complaints about FCP is the way it handles Auxiliary timecode. The major problem is that you can’t assign unique auxiliary timecode to each subclip without rippling the entire reel.
This makes it completely non-functional in a professional environment especially when several takes in a row will be on the same tape for example in a music video. This isn’t something only unique to music videos, however, its become an issue in commercials too where you have multiple takes say for something choreographed. The Apple support guys just say capture each clip separately but they obviously haven’t worked in a real professional post-production environment. At a busy facility there’s not enough time to tie a machine up so you can slowly toggle and log every single shot. Those of us professionals, especially if you’ve been on Avid, know that the fastest and most efficient way to breakdown a job is to digitize an entire tape first and THEN subclip/sync afterward.
The workaround I’ve resorted to is to sync all of my subclips and then exporting quicktimes and reimporting them back into the project and THEN assigning unique AUX TC to each new “master clip.” But come on guys this is a major oversight. You should be able to assign unique Auxiliary timecode at the subclip level without ripple this across the whole tape. This could be some sort of “soft” timecode for semantics sake. As a proud FCP user I got to say shame on Apple for ignoring the pro users. We have been requesting they fix this for years. In my opinion this will remain one of the many flaws in FCP that they need to fix if they ever seriously want to take on AVID. Instead of cannibalizing Shake and adding those feature into FCP (features that should probably remain in an effects package) PLEASE work on improving the actual EDITORIAL experience.
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10 Replies
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given the way TC works in FCP, i cant see this happening.
but what do i know.can other apps do this?
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[NickM] “can other apps do this?”
Avid does this handily.
Oh…there is SO MUCH that Avid does right having good media management…having worked on it now for 3 months, I go back to FCP for a week and begin cursing.
Give and take…
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
ha ha, having hung around these forums for years it seems that the only one talking about this (at the moment anyway) is your good self.
not suggesting that it shouldn’t happen mind. its an excellent request.
there are however LOTS of other requests that we’d all like to see addressed first. for example the implementation of a robust media database model, for tracking all project media by reel, timecode and metadata
… actually that would more than likely fix your little issue as a byproduct 🙂
could/would you modify your future posts of this issue to embrace the bigger picture?
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[Shane Ross] ”
Oh…there is SO MUCH that Avid does right having good media management…having worked on it now for 3 months, I go back to FCP for a week and begin cursing.”Just about everything FCP does wrong comes down to media management. It’s obvious whatever Apple did to set up Media Management is backwards from just about every other NLE out there so it’s an incredible Achilles Heel. But from what I’m told, it would essentially require a completely new application to change out the underlying media management so it will never happen.
I don’t really care about auxillary timecode and not sure why someone would post in all caps about this issue in this forum. Write directly to Apple using the Feedback form, that’s what it’s there for. Yes Apple reads these forums and they’ll also read the responses from people like me and Shane who would much rather have better media management from Apple long before auxillary timecode features.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi
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thanks Walter
thats exactly what I was alluding to.
as to why he would post his grievance here, well our erstwhile poster has been touting this on any number of forums over the last week or so … if he hadn’t posted here I’d have been very surprised and a little unsettled! 🙂
cheers
Andy -
A simple method to get around this without having to export everything would be to input your footage in one big chunk (this is never really recommended anyway for editing for file read times – but that’s another issue) and then do the following…
1. create your subclips from the master clips in the usual way
2. delete the original master clips from the project
3. Media Manage all the subclips using Copy and Delete Unused into a new project
4. this create new individual media files that you can modify Aux Timecode on to your heart’s content.Bingo – its a different way of working but as you are using copy and not recompressing it is a fairly fast process.
Alex Snelling
Slack Alice Films
http://www.slackalicefilms.co.uk -
Just for this trouble there IS a solution!
Not only will it auto subclip your reel, you don’t even have to type in the AUX TC!!!
Just record LTC on one of the channels and have AUX TC reader do the rest. It will read the LTC TC, and will make subclips for you. (LTC is an audio timecode format, the funny beeps you hear coming out the “timecode” output of a deck when connected to an amp)
Workflow for a music video:
You probably play back the song a zillion times while shooting. Make a CD (or whatever playback system you want), and put the song on channel 1, and LTC on channel 2
(just record LTC from a deck, or ask nice and i’ll prepare a clip for you.)Shoot in Rec Run or Free run, whatever you like. (I prefer Rec run for easier ingesting)
Digitize all your clips, ingest entire reels if you like.
Next, export an XML from your bin, and feed that to AUX TC reader. It will analyze your clips, and give you an XML containing all the subclips WITH CORRECT AUX TC!
FCP will set aux TC per reel, but this handy application will make new QT’s, (either self contained or reference files) per subclip, thus making it possible to have custom AUX tc per subclip (or shot, or whatever you want to call it)
Now you got a bin with all your shots, with normal Tc if you ever need to re-digitize, but with AUX TC for fast syncing multiple takes to the soundtrack.
This is also a handy tool if you shoot multicam. (Like a concert or so.) Broadcast LTC, record that on one channel on each cam, and it is VERY easy to sync all your cameras.
(if you ever had to edit a concert video from 4 unsynced cameras, and had to sync a specific part of the drummer without even knowing wich song it belongs to, you know you need this.)
Download a free demo from:
https://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=26Please do not hesitate to ask any questions you might have.
hth,
Bouke
http://www.videoToolShed.com
smart tools for video pro’s -
Yes essentially I’m talking about better media management on a larger scale and yes this issue would probably be solved with an overhaul to media management in FCP. But that is probably asking too much seeing as this is just one of the many features requested over the years in terms of better media management.
The reason for posting this is to bring awareness to a feature that is essential in any PROFESSIONAL music video and choreographed commercial work; this has been a thorn in my side with FCP for some time now. Furthermore I think it could be an easy fix for those of you programmers and developers out there that want to make some cash. It seems this is something that would be relatively simple to implement, maybe its a plugin/script that can create a “soft” timecode unique to each subclip. Alex thanks for that work around, it’s still breaking the master/subclip relationship, creating new master clips, but it may be a faster workflow for how I’m already doing it.
But to respond to Andy and Walter, particularly Walter, who I’ve seen all over the cow forums for several years, It seems you DO spend a lot of time just “hanging out on the forums” like Andy. Your particular style is to act smug and knowledgeable while it is other people like Alex and Bouke who are actually using these forums for what they are designed for: trouble shooting. So my advice to you is to find a tech chatroom you can grandstand on, while the rest of us who are doing real work in real production cities figure things out. How’s the industry in Sugar Hill, GA? I’ve been thinking of leaving L.A. for the big leagues down there.
-K
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Listen, if you are doing a specific type of work such as music videos, live concerts, and commercials with choreographed action this affects you. This is just one guy from a list of many others that agree:
https://www.scottsimmons.tv/blog/2006/09/13/bottom-10-final-cut-pro-tips/
The reality is the media management needs improvement. These are not issues in Avid.
-K
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Agreed.
the Apple/FCP world is adrift with TC problems
1) ALL content generated within the Viewer in FCP is ALWAYS NON-DROP – a problem when trying maintaining proper timing when using Titles, Slugs, Boris or Bars generated from the viewer in every version of FCP that has shipped ( I first reported it as a bug in FCP v2.01)
2) FCP does not support LTC time code on capture.
3) FCP does not read TC header files from QT ref movies ( used in 2K and 4K production)
for a start.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
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