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Apple and the relentless pursuit of excellence …
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[Ronny Courtens] “As I said, really nothing special.”
I think you’re rather glossing over the detail of the case that Louis makes.
All hardware fails, but that’s not the point.
His contention, backed up with concrete examples, is that Apple hardware has failed specifically because of poor decisions in the components used and the methods of construction.
He goes on to argue that Apple have failed to address the specific issues involved and allowed the consequences of those poor decisions to persist for several years.
He argues that Apple’s warranty schemes are very unhelpful in terms of addressing these problems.
He contends that Apple have implemented seriously poor decisions in their “solutions” to the specific hardware failures.
He claims that Apple have had to face litigation before they do the right thing and fix these problems.
His view is that Apple have the resources to “do better” and that customers can reasonably expect that of them.
He makes the point that Apple charge premium prices for what are meant to be “premium products” while not adhering to the sort of quality manufacturing standards that justify that positioning.
(Specifically the “unibody” that was never a unibody but two badly glued sections is an egregious example where Apple tried to market something that they hadn’t in fact built and which was destined to failure from the design stage.)
His argument ultimately is that Apple are knowingly short-changing their customers and as someone who sees the consequences of that on a daily basis he is understandably angry about it on their behalf.
He may be right and he may be wrong but to dismiss his case with a wave of the hand would be unfair given the level of detail that he adduces.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
But Simon, the mechamism to address this is already firmly In place.
If Apple isn’t serving their customers in a way that meets those customers needs, another vendor will inevitably come along and out-compete them.
There’s no lack of competing brands, after all.
In this era Computers aren’t magical obscure devices, they’re standard retail products.
If another company steps up to design better, manufacturer better, market better, or simply out hustle Apple, they presumably should start to sell better as well.
Last time I looked, nobody was standing outside Apple Stores forcing customers inside.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “If another company steps up to design better, manufacturer better, market better, or simply out hustle Apple, they presumably should start to sell better as well.”
Actually, the market has spoken. As a class, Windows/PC products outsell macOS/Apple products. In a tally of laptops by brand, Apple is fairing worse than others. You can certainly tout profitability, but that’s because Apple customers tolerate paying a premium price.
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263393/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009-by-vendor/
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Bill Davis] “If Apple isn’t serving their customers in a way that meets those customers needs, another vendor will inevitably come along and out-compete them. “
So your argument seems to be that unless the market reins you in from producing shoddy goods, you should just go right ahead and keep on doing it.
It might be good business practice (and then again it might not) but it’s hardly admirable.
I thought you wanted us to admire Apple not hold them in contempt?
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
[Bill Davis] “My argument is that the market has spoken and Apple is the largest company in the world based on the value people perceive they get from adopting Apple products. “
Apple is the largest company in the world because of iPhones and iPods…and also iPads. NOTHING to do with their computers. If they went back to only making computers and OS and software…they’d be right back to their small market self.
They aren’t successful because of the COMPUTERS they design that are nice and thin and sleek…and expensive to fix and limited in many many ways (because thin-ness is the main goal). It’s because of the popularity of the iPhone (started by the iPod).
Apple’s MacTube is a failure…one reason they haven’t updated it for so long is due to lack of sales and interest in it. iMacs do better, but really, most people buy their laptops. But their top of the line computers, the MacPro…lately are the BOTTOM of the ladder of apple products bought.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Louis Rossmann is possibly the best Apple tech in the United States. He has all the facilities to repair Apple products at component level – to the dismay of Apple. And he has had numerous threats of lawsuits against him, for displaying Apple confidential schematics on his YouTube presentations.
The bottom line here is – if you have a Mac that is dead, and Apple won’t fix it – Louis Rossmann CAN and WILL fix it, no matter what Apple says can, or can’t be fixed. Rossmann makes his living primarily fixing Apple products. He can certainly express his opinions.
With the recent fiasco of macOS High Sierra nonsense with third party drivers that I have faced, I am becoming more aggressive in my attitudes towards Apple products. While the iMac Pro is a fine product, I don’t (and can’t) make my living with a bare bones Mac and FCP X software. If I can’t interface OTHER PRODUCTS to an Apple computer – be it GPU’s, I/O Boxes, thunderbolt adaptors, 10G and 40G adaptors, external storage, external shared storage, etc. then I CANT MAKE A LIVING. And if Apple makes it more and more difficult to tie in THIRD PARTY products to Apple computers, then yes, I am going to be very vocal about this, and continue to complain. I have been involved with Apple computers since the beginning days of AVID. I am not a PC person, and I am not a newbie to Apple products. I don’t like the increase of Apple’s isolationism from other third party companies, that only want to use their products, so they can help their clients (and help sell Apple computers).
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
[Bob Zelin] “Louis Rossmann is possibly the best Apple tech in the United States. He has all the facilities to repair Apple products at component level – to the dismay of Apple.”
For those of you who don’t have the time to watch the full video, here’s Louis’ list of talking points:
1:01 – A1226/A1260 2007-2008 Macbook GPU failures, warranty service refusal
2:21 – A1226/A1260 2007-2008 Macbook Pro hinge/frame problem
3:16 – A1286 Macbook Pro – the “Unibody” myth, glued together pieces fall apart
4:58 – A1286/A1297 MCP power circuit failure due to poor buck converter design: C7771 issue
6:01 – iPhone 4 cellular placement fail
7:12 – iPhone 5 power button problem
7:27 – A1286 2010 Macbook Pro GPU kernel panics due to same buck converter defect from 2008/2009(this gives you a hint that apple engineers doesn’t give a **** about engineering good products, same design flaw for three straight years)
10:04 – A1286 2011 Macbook Pro GPU failure, Apple gets sued over not addressing problem.
11:43 – Apple gives out badly refurbished boards as warranty replacements for 2011 GPU failures.
13:06 – 2012 Retina Macbook Pro: another motherboard issue (U8900), due to poor soldering/manufacturing method on the GPU buck converter.
14:46 – Mac Pro GPU failure (again).
16:27 – iPhone 6/6+ touchscreen issue due to structural issue.
18:23 – SSD soldered straight into the motherboard+ chip that would kill the macbook, because a power line would short out to ground when the chip dies.
20:18 – 2016 Macbook keyboard reliability issue.
21:52 – 2016 Macbook Battery failure issue.
22:50 – A1278 Macbook Pro SATA cable failures(yes, really).
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
[Shane Ross] “Apple is the largest company in the world because of iPhones and iPods…and also iPads. NOTHING to do with their computers.”
We simply disagree on this.
What accelerated Apple’s growth out of the “beige box” era – and into the company they are today – was a switch in focus from exclusively better software – to a new level of BOTH software and hardware expertise.
The iPhone and the iPod were only POSSIBLE because Apple doubled down on design, manufacturing AND software during the post Scully and Amelio era.
It’s no surprise that nearly all laptops today follow MacBook design aesthetics. Or that nearly all smart phones look essentially like iPhones. Here’s a prediction. When the modular MacPro arrives – wait a year and see what happens in overall computer design.
Is there a chance they will make a misstep as with the trashcan MacPro? Sure. You can’t innovate without taking chances.
But when you search “laptop” computer on Google right now, count the number of returns that are thin and aluminum compared to those that look much different. They may be different colors, but their FORM is all nearly identical. And totally contrary to all the legions of voices at the time saying “we don’t want laptops that are THINNER – we want laptops that are more powerful!!!”
Apples COMPUTERS are still informing the overall design of the class. Because everything NOT Apple, still looks like it’s stuck in the design of either the 1990s – or some weird R. Geiger Alien Gamer-centric universe.
Again, search Google for “iMac alternative.” There they are. All in one “slab” units from Lenovo, Dell, Acer et al.
Game over! ????
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Simon Ubsdell] “So your argument seems to be that unless the market reins you in from producing shoddy goods, you should just go right ahead and keep on doing it.”
Uh, not sure how you can support “shoddy” when the metrics on customer satisfaction always seem to pretty constantly favor Apple products.
I can see the premium price argument. But unless you can show me stats that Macs fail at a rate higher than the similarly priced competition – I don’t think “shoddy” is a fair shot.
And, BTW, I’ve definitely had apple products that have had various manufacturing issues. But in EVERY case, they’ve made it right without issue, at the local Apple retail store where I”m just another customer.
Maybe any extra profit partially goes to insure that? Apple as the Nordstrom of computer makers?
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “What accelerated Apple’s growth out of the “beige box” era – and into the company they are today – was a switch in focus from exclusively better software – to a new level of BOTH software and hardware expertise.”
Uhm…do you forget that Apple ALWAYS made hardware and software? Their computers came with their OS only…ever since they started the MACINTOSH line. Even the iMac couldn’t save them, needed Bill Gates to invest $500 million in the company to help keep it going. iPods came out, with iTunes…and that started the boost. But iPhones is what made them the richest company in the world. Not computer sales. Computers are a very SMALL part of their business anymore. Seriously Bill…tiny.
[Bill Davis] “Apples COMPUTERS are still informing the overall design of the class.”
DESIGN…but not power. They used to be the machines creatives turned to for video editing power. Now? A PC running windows will blow any MAC out of the water processing and GPU wise. ALL Apple has going for it is “cool factor” and neat designs when it comes to computers. Well, that and a solid OS. But power? No, that isn’t what Apple is known for any more. Slick looking..yeah. that’s about it. Design and looks don’t help one win in the video creation realm.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
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