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And speaking of things I don’t fully understand,,,
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[TImothy Auld] “And that somehow justifies your making a personal comment about me? Sorry. No. That’s not just trying to help.”
Timothy. I did not make a personal comment about you.
Man, I think I need a break. This is getting out of control.
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So what’s this?
[Jeremy Garchow] “I think Timothy needs to have certain things way of of sync”
bigpine
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I don’t know about Tim but i definitely need the ability to have nothin’ attached to nothin’ but with the ability to reattach at will.
I mentioned this months ago in one of the earlier go ’rounds that one of the first things I do after making an assembly is to de-link everything.
I want to treat my audio like it’s mag track on a moviola – sync code when I need it, but otherwise total freedom to move it around completely disconnected with the video. I never use J and L cuts because I never need them – free Audio, free from the tyranny of video, free at last, free at last, thank the big editor in the sky I’m free at … I think you get the idea.
When editing multi-cam this becomes a natural way of working.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
Tim, I think Jeremy was simply referring to this:
[TImothy Auld] “It’s not a question of tools. In many instances I need to have audio and video completely unconnected and to be able to manipulate them in the timeline at will in any way I choose. I don’t see how that happens in the present magnetic timeline in a multicam situation. “
I was being snarky but basically agreeing with you. I often slip sync and create entirely new relationships on the fly. The magnetic timeline doesn’t help. And at least in FCP7, when you slip audio, there are indicators to let you know.
Nothing personal, we’re all friends here 🙂
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Herb Sevush] “I don’t know about Tim but i definitely need the ability to have nothin’ attached to nothin’ but with the ability to reattach at will.
“Me three.
[Herb Sevush] “I want to treat my audio like it’s mag track on a moviola – sync code when I need it, but otherwise total freedom to move it around completely disconnected with the video.”
Yup. And at least every couple of projects, I’m faking someone’s dialog over them actually saying something else.
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In understood exactly what you were saying David, and I did not take that personally in any way. But thanks.
bigpine
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[Herb Sevush] “Multi-Cam essentials
1) The ability to create a multi-clip with a minimum of 25 angles, no limit would be better. “
Wow.
I’m gonna argue directly against this idea. I don’t want to turn my laptop into your idea of a multi-cam monster. At ALL.
To me, 25 angles is at LEAST 17 too many. – at least until Thunderbolt fully implements the all optical roadmap.
Anyway, I personally I don’t want the dev team to spend a minute coding in stuff that only a tiny fraction of the users will ever really need.
Maybe at some distant future point, we’ll have some kind of UBER-WiFi that lets some kid sit at their laptop and grab 25 plus real-time feeds from the cel phones surrounding a BMX race, but I’m not holding my breath for that.
Again, it’s clear that while FCP-X will grow and evolve and nobody knows how far – if they wanted to write something that does what OLD FCP used to do – only more and better – they were perfectly capable of doing precisely that. They’d already done it. (Multiple times’ in Randy’s case!)
Herb, this will NEVER be the monolithic “everything for everyone” software you are so clearly still pining for.
They are on a different path. You might as well be asking them to code in all the capabilities of a GV Keyenne as well, but NEITHER of those things are likely to happen. Period.
It’s starting to sound like I’m listening to a parent for whom it doesn’t matter how decent and accomplished the kid the daughter brings home might be – that kid will never, ever, EVER be “good enough.”
Just sayin’
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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Why can’t you just select the original clip, clone it with “new compound clip” – detach the audio from that and if you need to “re-attach it” just replace the un-synced one with the original?
Haven’t tried it, but it seems pretty trivial to me.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Bill Davis] “To me, 25 angles is at LEAST 17 too many”
When I say a minimum of 25 cameras, it means you can do up to 25 cameras if you want to. You can also do only 2, 3 or 4. Right now Legacy can handle 16 cameras, which is OK but there are a lot of live concerts shot with up to 20 – 25 cameras. It’s up to the editor to define how many angles he wants to work with.
Most NLE’s right now can handle at least 8 angles, PPro is very disappointing in that currently it can handle only 4, but there are strong rumors that that’s about to change.
[Bill Davis] “Herb, this will NEVER be the monolithic “everything for everyone” software you are so clearly still pining for.”
Bill, what I outlined is not outrageous – Legacy can do it now (albeit 16 cameras instead of 25). If FCPX doesn’t want my business that’s fine, but Apple claims otherwise. What I laid out are the requirements for a serious multi-cam editor. It’s up to Apple to determine how serious they want to be. Like any old dog, I simply go where I am wanted.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productionsnothin’ attached to nothin’
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Hm,
Some thoughts of mine.
A lot of people say that FCPX compared to FCP is database driven. FCP was database driven as well – but used another concept.
Regarding multicam work I do see some problems: The current UI using a single viewer. I also do see some problems with timecode which currently is not supported in a way that you can have either multiple tc tracks or can modify them. You can’t sync by timecode all. The ‘synchronize by audio’ stuff doesn’t work for me. I can use it, the audio will be out of sync and I can re-arrange this kind of merged clip by hand. But that’s not something I do expect from an all new video editing app.
I don’t know how many of you dived into the XML stuff provided by FCP legacy and FCPX. I was one of those who did, sometimes to get workarounds, sometimes to better understand how the app was working (and how the database is organized).
Current FCPXML is pretty poor (also with documentation) – I even would say it’s not a version 1 release. Anyway it’s there and it’s a step forward.
But if I look at the options I get to create multiclips I’m a bit desperate as the XML interface doesn’t allow to do any of the legacy options to sync multiple audio and video sources into one clip. You still can go the ‘syncronize & secondary route’, but that neither elegant nor time saving.
I’ve to agree that this kind of stuff hasn’t been that reliable in FCP legacy – so I created an external app to feed old FCP with reliable multiclips. This option is gone at least for the current release.So all we can do is to sit and wait for a new release and start the discussion again when it’s out.
Andreas
P.S. For those who want to know how our workflow had been for FCP 7
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools/movies/multiSync.mov – sorry it lost the VOSpherico
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools
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