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Analog Dubs too Hot from FCP?
Onlined a music vid in FCP. SD to Digibeta. Meters in FCP peak about -8… so just into the yellow. Digibeta is unity and its meters on record are fine (about 3/4 of maximum). Getting a call from the dubhouse in NY that the mix is too hot for analog dubs. I ran both a VHS and a BetaSP set up to bars and tone from this tape (so -20 tone = -3 VU) and they don’t peak – but they do ride in the red.
Is it possible the actual mix of the music is just too hot? It doesn’t vary more than 3 DB – it’s rock and roll they whole way through. Are the meters in FCP and/or Digibeta averages and not showing maximum peaks – like a drum hit that’s too fast? Or sub-bass that’s too hot? (I’ve got Genelec monitors with the subwoofer in the room – doesn’t sound out of place).
I’m just miffed. Done several handfuls of music videos on this system with these clients and never had this problem before.
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6 Replies
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Your levels should not go above -12db in FCP. -6 is way too hot.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
I have to respectfully disagree – I’ve got literally hundreds of commercials in our vault with final mixes done and laid to Digi by the big audio post houses in LA and they all tend to peak around -6 in FCP. And like I said, I’ve done at least 15 music videos mixed where I have it now and they’ve never been rejected (big bands – MTV, FUSE, VH1 aired them no problems).
I can just turn it down more and keep laying off quieter dubs. But I’m really concerned that I’m not seeing the whole story in FCP which I’ve been trusting so far.
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There’s been a few audio posts here lately in the past few days and there’s really no good answer. I can only offer my experiences. It’s not an FCP thing, it’s the way digital and analog audio works. Digital has way more head room, while analog is more forgiving to peaks. I always do to two mixes for digital and analog and here’s why. With analog, you set your tone to zero and then you try to keep everything at or a hair above that. Basically most everything is below 0. WIth digital sound, you set your tone to -20 and then try to keep everything peaking between -12 and -6, which means most of the sound is above -20 (tone), especially with music only programs like yours. What I do is usually mix the program to digital (bars and tone and everything). and then I duplicate the timeline and turn down the master volume so the peaks are hitting at or just above 0 and then I make the timeline tone match zero in the analog meters. Make sense?
Jeremy
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FWIW I too will offer what has worked for me in FCP:
I set tone in FCP to -20dB. I’ll set that to 0 on the Beta deck. Then I make sure my peaks are around -12dB with nothing going over -10dB in Final Cut. This setup gives me analog levels that hover around 0, with the occasional peaks bouncing in the +1 or +2dB range on a Betacam deck.
I also have a D9 deck with digital audio meters (although it is recieving analog audio). This setup yields the same levels as Final Cut Pro: tone -20dB, peaks below -10dB which is great for in house masters.
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Thanks guys – and sorry Shane, you are right in the east coast point of view.
I talked to a couple mix houses in NY today and they tend to keep the levels lower – matching -20 digital tone to 0 VU on analog decks. Then I talked to some of our mix houses in LA and they all mix hotter: setting -20 tone to -3VU on analog. And we’ve always calibrated our analog decks to -3 (not that we ever make analog tapes. maybe 3 BetaSP a year, and haven’t fired up a 3/4″ in probably 2 years).
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[CharlieX2] “sorry Shane, you are right in the east coast point of view”
You mean the East Coast and West Coast have two different standards? That’s not good…
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net
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