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AJA ioHD or Motu V4HD?
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Io HD is an easy choice. AJA is a broadcast video company that’s been making these products a long time and they have the best support in the business.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[Mark Spano] “There are some caveats with this hardware, but I’ve been using it for quite some time and have been mostly pleased.”
the biggest hardware caveat I know of:
The V4D nor the Matrox MXO/2 cannot capture to ProRes in any current laptop at all.[Mark Spano] “Wrong – the V4HD runs full raster over FW800 “
Sorry but there is no way that DVCProHD is full raster in any way, shape or form and since the V4D cannot capture ProRes on any laptop, that does really limit you unless you are tied to a desk.gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
C’mon Gary, do we really need to go there every single time? FWIW then, the MXO2 is the only unit that can capture and work with Uncompressed HD.
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to clarify, I was never suggesting that DVCProHD was full raster. I was stating that the V4HD supported full raster capture and playout (with the appropriate codec of course). This is what marks the V4HD different from its predecessor (V3HD).
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[Andy Mees] “C’mon Gary, do we really need to go there every single time?”
What the very first post in the thread was about working on a LAPTOP.
the truth is the truth, and on a laptop the other devices have issues in comparison.
While your statement about UC HD capture on a desktop is correct (thought I believe that it is limited in the current release to 8bit only or has that been fixed?),
I am able to playout 10bit Uncompressed single link HD from my IoHD all day long when it is attached to a desktop and array. Same as your MXO2. But we are not talking about desktop usage, as that deviates from the original posting about “I work on a 2.66ghz MBPro”
For a laptop based FCP user the IoHD still offers more abilities and better performance than either of the other devices being discussed, number one of them is a real ability to handle 10bit ProResHQ Capture and Playback on a laptop.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
No worries Gary, perhaps I was waiting a little too keenly for the soapboxes to come out!
Firstly then, apologies. You note that the OP was specifically looking for guidance on a laptop based solution and you are of course correct. I had thought that my original response ( in which I had wholeheartedly endorsed the IoHD ) had already made the point that the IoHD was hardware ProRes capable but perhaps that had got lost in the telling! I jumped in, as until your post the MXO2 had already been very specifically precluded by the OP and was not being discussed. Ah well, thats my bad as they say, I should have let it go. Again apologies if my comment was unfair.
Fwiw, I stand by my original recommendation to the Chris, which was for the IoHD (unless he’s looking for advanced audio handling capabilities at which point the V4HD does indeed look more enticing).
You ask if 10 bit uncompressed capture is working fine with the MXO2 … yes, to the best of my knowledge there are no current issues with that workflow. As an industry commentator you might also be interested to note that a soon to be released MXO2 driver update is slated to bring a “possibility” for 24p (and 25p?) ProRes HD capture on a current MBP laptop. That’s all very “may” and “might” of course but something to keep an eye on perhaps.
Thanks also for the note regarding your success with Uncompressed HD playback through the IoHD. I do have some questions on the point though as I had understood that the IoHD (and V4HD) FW800 connection was not simply not technically / practically capable of handling the data rate of Uncompressed 10 bit HD sources (with the exception of 720p24 perhaps?). With a maximum theoretical bandwidth of 100 MB/s it would seem that even 8 bit Uncompressed HD streams would be pushing that limit? What I had previously been given to understand was that when working with any HD format the IoHD required the signals be passed through a ProRes compression cycle (in order to pass across the FW bus). Is this no longer the case, or perhaps it never was the case, or maybe its format specific? I would appreciate if you could clarify on that point as it does have me puzzling.
Thanks again for the shared wisdom
Andy -
[Andy Mees] ” I stand by my original recommendation to the Chris, which was for the IoHD (unless he’s looking for advanced audio handling capabilities at which point the V4HD does indeed look more enticing).”
I agree completely, Motu is far better equipped for advanced audio needs.
“As an industry commentator you might also be interested to note that a soon to be released MXO2 driver update is slated to bring a “possibility” for 24p (and 25p?) ProRes HD capture on a current MBP laptop.”
That one I will believe when I see, I was told that there are a number of issues regarding the current CPU power requirements vs. available Cache vs. memory installed vs. drain from the express slot for data management. If they can pull it off – all for it.
“as I had understood that the IoHD (and V4HD) FW800 connection was not simply not technically / practically capable of handling the data rate of Uncompressed 10 bit HD sources (with the exception of 720p24 perhaps?)”
They don’t- The CPU handling the conversion to ProResHQ since that is the native format for the IoHD’s HD workflow, hence the reason and need for a desktop to be able to do this.
“I had previously been given to understand was that when working with any HD format the IoHD required the signals be passed through a ProRes compression cycle (in order to pass across the FW bus)”
That is correct.
Note that with any of the Express card based laptop solutions (using infiniband or SAS connector) are duly hobbled as well, while no where near the limit of the bus, especially in regard to the system architecture on current Apple laptops, all are limited, just the same.
The problem with all of these systems is the confusing nature of the terminology of GBps vs Gbps vs GBP/s that can describe the theoretical speed but does not talk about actual real world issues like issues regarding crosstalk or lack synchronicity in the I/O functionality.
So many times the data can only flow in one direction- creating a bottle neck, since the computer has to pause the flow of data to respond to any change, rather than allowing the info to flow in asynchronistic manner where data passed in both directions simultaneously.
my 2c.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
New to this forum, but had to relay my experiences with the Motu V4HD. We originally bought 2 V3HD’s for use with FCP. When V4HD came out, Motu sent us free upgrades to the new unit. Have had the V4HD in FCP suites for 6 months now – and, in short, am looking to now replace them with AJA Kona or I/O. The only positive thing I can say about it is that it has a lot of I/O capabilities, and the up/down scaling fucntions are very nice. But the V4HD suffers numerous problems – the most frequent of which is a FW800 connector that becomes separated from the circuit board, causing intermittent interface issues with the workstation. Frequent firmware re-flashing is required to ge the V4HD to work after malfunctions, and the interface with FCP is unpredictable at best. As a production house owner, my FCP editors want the V4HD “outta here”. We routinely have to re-start FCP, re-boot the V4HD, or do a total system re-start ot get things functioning again. It is a very frustrating I/O interface to use. And to make all matters worse, Motu phone support is non-existant. When the product first came out, their (not toll free) support number was answered and the help was good. Now – the support line is busy every time we call it – never answered – just a busy signal. That must mean our experiences are not unique to us. I can not recommend the V4HD based on our experiences for FCP – at all.
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Hi
I am using the V4HD on a HD1920x1080 24p feature film here in the UK. I had to choose the V4HD over ioHD for its superior timecode capabilities.
When I hired it i was informed it worked with ProRes. Out of the box it simply didn’t function I contacted MOTU technical help by phone. They were incredibly rude and to every inquiry responded that i should contact Apple!
Anyhow, after extensive upgrades to my system, uninstalling Blackmagic and ioHD components and a firmware upgrade to the V4HD! it eventually worked.
It doesn’t work in ProRes. So I am forced to work in DVCproHD and conform to ProRes later. It also stutters a lot, generating long frames.
i think there is a long way to go on this product to make it a robust workflow option with FCP. They should outsource their technical support!
Pinewood Studios, UK
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Apparently, 1920×1080 ProRes only works if you run it on an Mac Intel.
Pinewood Studios, UK
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