AJA Audio Bad, Line out Good

[Bob Cole]

The Plot Thickens. I think the bottom line is: Kona LHe is sometimes (not always) confused by multiple video inputs. And when the LHe’s confused, hell breaks loose.

Episode One ended with a brand-new AJA KL Box and cable, kindly provided by AJA Support. With that pristine device, I again attempted to capture (HDV tape-> Sony M25U deck-> Convergent Design HD-Connect HDMI-> Kona LHe SDI input-> FCP Apple ProRes).

FCP gave me this message: “Tape trouble. Check VTR. Do not attempt to eject tape or use transport without checking VTR.” I clicked “OK” a couple of times, getting the same message, until a new message appeared: “Capture Now has reached the end of the tape…” (I had a lot of trouble just shuttling the tape through FCP, as well.)

I disconnected the iLink/Firewire cable, sacrificing timecode and deck control, and the 50-minute capture SEEMED to work. But it played back out of sync, with the familiar audio clicks.

Not only that, but a previously-recorded file (same setup) which had previously played fine, now had audio clicks and dropped frames.

On the advice of Convergent Design I disconnected the video analog component cables that led from the Sony M25 to the Kona LHe. When I did that, the previously-recorded file played fine again, and when I captured with the analog cables disconnected from the Kona LHe, everything is fine, with deck control/video/clean audio, in sync.

Oddly, the AJA Control Panel selected SDI as the input, when I had the analog component video hooked up. But there must be some conflict somewhere. Power cycling the HD-Connect may also have helped.

Bob C

MacPro 2 x 3GHz dualcore; 2 GB 667MHz
Kona LHe
Sony HDV Z1
Sony HDV M25U
HD-Connect MI
Betacam UVW1800
DVCPro AJ-D650

[Gary Adcock]

Bob

your cobbled setup is your issue. I do not understand the CD box, when you can take the analog audio and video out of the deck straight into the Kona card?

Kona Cards want to handle the deck control, without it they do get testy. you are using FW.

When you have video in on more than one input you really need to have Trilevel sync in HD to keep the clocking correct, otherwise the Kona card will keep trying to match a signal by bouncing between the Video IN signals as that is set as the default.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Bob Cole]

[gary adcock] ”
your cobbled setup is your issue. I do not understand the CD box, when you can take the analog audio and video out of the deck straight into the Kona card?

Hi Gary,

True but not the whole issue.

True: When I unconfused the Kona by disconnecting component video in, the audio click/sync problem disappeared*. (The * is because even though the CD box converts Firewire to RS422, I still have occasional problems with classic HDV timecode breaks. And those problems are severe, with FCP repeatedly reporting major VTR problems before announcing that I’ve reached the end of the tape — at the start of a reel. But so far, with just a few hours of evidence, those problems seem to be confined to the beginning of reels rather than in the middle of takes, as has happened when I used straight Firewire for deck control.)

But my troubles with audio clicks and sync started before the CD box. Here’s an earlier thread:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/98/865467

After that earlier episode I finally bought a real deck, the Sony M25, which did not solve the audio click/sync problem. After that, I just abandoned trying to make HD work for awhile, and resorted to DVCAM and HDV.

Gary, you were kind enough to help me with my earlier problem, when I was using component video and analog audio from the Sony camera into the Kona LHe. In that thread, you advised me that “the timing of your signal needs to be re-calibrated since you are not using any sort of “clocking” to generate a fixed sync signal for the audio to lock its timing to.”

I now suspect that I failed to pick up on that comment of yours. What exactly were you advising me to do? I have heard of trilevel sync, but JeremyG has advised me to use “freerun” in the AJA Control Panel, and that seems to work.

To summarize: the CD box works, as long as you disconnect the component video to the Kona. I’m able to capture hour-long tapes, and audio sync is maintained. Using the RS422 converter in the CD box, classic HDV firewire problems seem to be diminished, though not eliminated. (I still haven’t picked an HD monitor, so I can’t speak to the quality difference between SDI and component video.)

Gary, could you help me understand your comment:
Kona Cards want to handle the deck control, without it they do get testy. you are using FW.” With the CD box, I’m only using FW as far as the CD box, which converts it to RS422. (I recall that someone (JeremyG?) wrote that the MacPro has issues with FW sync.)

At any rate, knock on wood, it works, mostly. I now wonder whether I should have bought the Sony 1500 deck — if that would have improved the deck control/timecode break issues.

Thanks very much for reading this encyclopedic thread. And thanks to AJA Support for hanging in there with me. We’ll get it done.

Bob C

MacPro 2 x 3GHz dualcore; 2 GB 667MHz
Kona LHe
Sony HDV Z1
Sony HDV M25U
HD-Connect MI
Betacam UVW1800
DVCPro AJ-D650

[Gary Adcock]

[Bob Cole] “(The * is because even though the CD box converts Firewire to RS422, I still have occasional problems with classic HDV timecode breaks. And those problems are severe, with FCP repeatedly reporting major VTR problems before announcing that I’ve reached the end of the tape — at the start of a reel”

Make sure to set the time and date on your camera, and increase the handles on your captures to 6-8 sec. Welcome to HDV

the audio popping could be from a bad FW cable– have you tried a shielded cable (magnetic chokes on the cable)

” What exactly were you advising me to do? I have heard of trilevel sync, but JeremyG has advised me to use “freerun” in the AJA Control Panel, and that seems to work. “

but you have 2 video- in signals, Free run and Video in Assume that you are have only one input or that you have some level of sync.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Bob Cole]

[gary adcock] “but you have 2 video- in signals, Free run and Video in Assume that you are have only one input or that you have some level of sync.”

No, I disconnected the analog component video in. I still don’t know what this “tri-level sync” means. Do I need to know?

Didn’t know about setting the time/date on the HDV camera. Thanks for that tip.

re: good shielded cable. What’s a good brand? Iogear? Monster? I always suspect with the latter that I’m paying for marketing.

Bob C

MacPro 2 x 3GHz dualcore; 2 GB 667MHz
Kona LHe
Sony HDV Z1
Sony HDV M25U
HD-Connect MI
Betacam UVW1800
DVCPro AJ-D650

[Walter Biscardi]

[Bob Cole] “I still don’t know what this “tri-level sync” means. Do I need to know?”

Just means it provides different levels of sync for SD and HD. Look at AJA’s Gen 10 in their Converters section. That’s what it is and it’s the cheapest version of one out there.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi