AE w/Nucleo Pro + Xfactor vs. Nitris/Flame

[Mylenium]

I don’t think so. You can’t blend, color correct and whatnot 8 HD streams in realtime in AE as you can on a fully powered DS. As for the rest – if you stick to the strict conventions of “compositing”, then a quad mac with Nucleo is certainly a good option, but then again DS and flame are finishing systems, they never were meant as just compositing tools. They do anything from editing to keying to rotoscoping to color correction to native 3D object rendering and most of it in realtime or at least hell of a lot faster than AE running on the most speedy system thinkable. You see, there will always be differences between hardware-based and software-only solutions, and that what makes the difference in price. I’ve seen two or three flame/ inferno systems in my short career (not used them myself, just watched in awe, several Quantel systems (which do similar things, but more broadcast-oriented) and DS as well and trust me, as much as we all love AE, compared to the options you get with those tools, AE is “just another software”. If you can, try to find some companies that use those systems (if even I can in the valley of the retarded that Germany is post-production wise, you should have no problem at all) and have a look at them.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl

[Chris Smith]

I use a DS Nitris almost every day. I LOVE AE but for just “Art Cards” and mograph. When it comes to a serious finishing box that works as fast as you can think I would never dream of replacing the DS with AE. It’s not just the speed it’s the features. AE has no real color corrector, just a bunch of PS style tools which are a joke for super quick modern video color correction. The fact that AE is nodeless makes it almost useless to me for quick compositing. Layer based just doesn’t cut it outside of mograph.

Believe me I wouldn’t have dropped that kind of duck on a DS system if I thought that AE or FCP on any speedy box would replace it and I know AE like the back of my hand so it’s not that I’m not used to it.

my .02.

Chris Smith
https://www.sugarfilmproduction.com

[Jeff Dobrow]

Agreed.

Flame is a compositing tool. It is not used for editing,…and not too great for mograph. It is meant for the heavy lifting of serious compositing. It’s roto tools leave AE light years behind, its node based interface makes handling ridiculous amounts of layers and subtle operations a breeze. It’s 3D capabilities are ‘ok’. It can load and render objects in virtually realtime,..BUT it’s opengl. There are major texture/light/poly limitations to this. It cannot replace a 3D app. Its paint (as part of roto) is incredible as well. Also, the new versions of Flame will run faster on a Linux equipped PC than the SGI counterparts….they are heading that way….but its the gfx subsystem that handles the load,..not as much the proc.

So bottom line is that AE is software with features,….Flame simply has more mature and different features…and is targeted towards different work than AE.

Can’t speak for Nitro….don’t use it.

[Tom Daigon]

I have used Avid / Softimge DS for 10 years and I must admit that these days I wish it had alot of the capabilites that AE has to offer. Its a dinosaur when it comes to …Text animation…Trapcode
style strokes….instantaneous & interesting glows…ad infinitum. And personally I think AEs Color Finesse and tracking give it a run for its money. Granted its long form capabilities, media management and multiformat reliability make it a rock you can rely on….But I sure love how Premiere and AE have the dynamic link (maybe Axio in a few years will be my editor of choice…with quad – dual cores to help.)

[Chris Smith]

I use AE to generate greyscale mattes for the DS. For text I just animate white over black or generate 3D stroke greyscale maps. Then drop it all into DS for the main composite. As far as glows and what not, I made all custom node trees for glows, power windows, trapcode starglow simulation, etc. Color Finesse is a good corrector trapped in a bad shell. I would take the DS CC over it any day (but would borrow the nice secondaries if I could). I’ll take the DS tracker any day over AE. I still find AE’s tracker pretty poor. That’s why I still use the Commotion tracker, even though that program hasn’t been developed for years.

But you could look at any high end system and it will lack luxeries that a simple program may have. But it doesn’t take away the fact that I now work Waaaaaay faster than I ever did when I was trying to get FCP, Shake, and AE to work together as one unit. I’m thinking of what I had to do in the last 2 weeks and shutter to think what a bear it would have been dealing with YUV/RGB conversions pull down/pull up issues of switching between all the different programs.

But like has been discussed so many times on this forum. Compositors are utensils of different types. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But a McClaren that’s missing a navigation system doesn’t make the nav ready Acura a better car. my 02.

Chris Smith
https://www.sugarfilmproduction.com

[Jimmy Brunger]

I think something like a Flame comes into play when your main work is high-end compositing/VFX and you have a client sat with you constantly on a very tight deadline. (ie: Music video, high-end TVCs, etc.)

AE (plus rest of Adobe s/ware, Combustion, FCP, etc) is great for more mograph work or jobs with less time constraints, because you can have several seats working on a job at a time for the fraction of the cost of a single Flame suite.

We do mainly low-mid budget TVCs and my PC-based s/ware collection set up works just dandy. If we were to start chasing high-end FX stuff and heavy compositing I’d push for a Flame. I know a Post Production house down the road with a Flame that just sits there barely getting used most of the time, because the type of work they generally do doesn’t call for it, or clients don’t want to pay the premium.

We’ll be getting a Smoke or Nitris DS to replace our Quantel Editbox fairly soon I imagine, because our work calls for the speed and flexibilty they provide. But for GFX, software based variety is the best fit.

Horses for courses as always…

*Production Studio Premium / *Combustion 3
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