AE Tracking At Half Frames?!?!?!

[Anthony Sipsas]

Thanks Dave. Clip is 23.976fps, -not 29.97. and am aware over long periods of time , sound will loose sync on 24fps timeline.

I have not dealt with 3-2 pull down much in my career being that I work mostly in interactive space and for web, and clips given to me are usually 24p or 60p.

From what I understand, 3-2 is when you try to play a 29.97 clip on a 24fps timeline? Is that correct?

I was getting mid frames on the 23.976 prior to interpreting to 24. Thought interpreting to 24 would solve why I was getting mid frames key frames on a 23.976 clip.

Same results, so I reverted to 23.976, but still have a mod frame data issue.

Any ideas?

[Anthony Sipsas]

My only guess would be to pre comp in a 23.976 pre comp just for the track, then put that pre comp Ina 24 timeline?

[Anthony Sipsas]

Dave,

So i re-imported the 23.976 footage, into a new 23.976 pre-comp and tracked.

Im still getting half frames. Its inconsistant too. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn’t.

Heres the info”

If you look closely at the keyframes outside of the close up area I have high lit, you can see that there is no mid-frame data in that area. Which shows an inconsistency that I wanted to point out.

The other thing is, when adding the “mid-frame’ keyframes, sometimes it adds all data, sometimes it only sets keyframes (on a mid frame) for feature center, or Attach Point, but not Confidence or All 3 (as it does on the “On Frame” Keyframe data, which leads me to believe that its not an intended feature.

Let me know what you think.

[Frank Feijen]

Only time i saw this kind of keyframe behaviour was when track fields was activated…

[Anthony Sipsas]

Dave,

I also did some asking around to find out that the footage is XDCAM. Im not familiar with this, but with a little looking around, I read that XDCAM footage is really 29.97 being “pulled down” to 23.976 in camera? Is this true? This would explain what I am seeing, and what you were describing, but im curious if this is the camera doing this? If so, would I need to interpret for pull down?

Camera:

PDWF800 Filmed @ 23.976p 1920×1080

Wow this is an odd situation….

Thanks in advance,

A

Also, to show a little bit more on “inconsistencies”. Take a look on my timeline (further down from before), as you can see, after a certain point, AE is no longer key framing data on frames, but rather solely on in between frames, and is doing it inconsistently. You can also see how it also doesn’t key frame ALL the data:

[Anthony Sipsas]

Never heard that term before. What does it mean ? Oh wait, do you mean fields as in interlaced footage? Ah ok, no this is Progressive. Where can I find this option to disable it?

[Paul Roper]

As Frank said, you’ve probably got ‘Track Fields’ switched on. It’s in the Options… of the Tracker dialog box. I just did a quick test (with progressive footage – it doesn’t matter) and switched ‘Track Fields’ on, and lo and behold – keyframes every half frame.

For tracking, make sure your comp is set to exactly whatever your source footage is. Worry about all that framerate and pulldown nonsense in your next step(s).

– Paul

[Anthony Sipsas]

Thanks Guys for all your help. Track Fields is not enabled, so I dont believe thats doing it.

As far as the conversion, the information I found was from quick internet research, so it may or may not be accurate, but Im leaning toward what Dave is suggesting about the 3-2 Pulldown. Unfortunately, I am looking at the footage straight from the camera, so anything that I am experiencing is done in camera as Im pulling it straight of the XDCAM media.

There is also a “Samurai” from atomos (Similar to this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858661-REG/ATOMOS_ATOMNJA002_Ninja_2.html
)

Both (XDCAM and Samurai) are set to 1920×1080 23.976 progressive in camera, and reflect that when i check the info on the clips.

Reading the manual (Large and useless) from the Sony F800, it stated something about certain frame rates at certain settings being artificially generated, and not true settings (which is a tendency in some cameras).

Ill take a look at it again throughout the day today, and see what I can find.

IN the meantime, I see a setting I have never used when interpreting footage (within AE) that states “24pa PUlldown”. What is this as opposed to 3-2?

Thanks again guys, and thanks Dave!

[Anthony Sipsas]

Footage is coming out of the camera @ 23.976fps.

I am researching the XDCAM information and here is what I came up with as far as what the cameras pdfs are telling me:

PDW-F800 (SONY)> XDCAM:

Mode (Codec): MPEG HD (MPEG-2 MP@HL)
Pixels: 1440 x 1080
Y/C Sample: 4:2:0
Frame Frequency: 23.98p

All while there is a Samurai recording same signal to flash drives in real time to:

Compression (codec): Apple Pro Res
Pixels: 1920×1080
y/C Sample: 4:2:2
Frame Frequency: 23.98p

I bring both clips into AE, and they both read exactly what I Typed here. (XDAM comes in @ 1440, while Samurai comes in @ 19020×1080)

My question is, is the samurai doing anything to it funny maybe?

I havent tried a track on the XDCAM footage straight from the camera yet, but I watched the footage on the XDCAM taken straight from the sony media, and it doesn’t look normal. Motion blur on objects moving fast are solid (no transparency). I’ve never seen that before.

The footage on the solid state looks fine going through it frame by frame, but I am having the issues with the track that Im talking about above….

Ill be doing more tests throughout the day.

Thanks again.

[Jesse Wood]

Did you ever solve this?

I’m experiencing the same thing, except with Canon DSLR footage, which I’ve worked with a million times before and never had this issue…