Advice needed: Moving from 1 seat FC to 2 seats ?

[Bob Zelin]

Apace, Tiger Technology, Maxx Digital Final Share are all excellent solutions. And there are others too, and I am sure these companies will respond on this forum. The bottom line is that even for 2 seats, you need to do a lot more than plug in 2 computers to one disk drive (as many people seem to believe that you can actually do this).

Our solution involves using a dedicated MAC Pro, some disk drives, and special ethernet equipment to allow you to accomplish what you want to do. A Mac Pro is about $2700, the ethernet gear is about $2000, and you need a disk drive array as your shared volume. There are other solutions as well. There are many excellent companies on Creative Cow that will respond to you.

Bob Zelin

[Matt Geier]

Hi Morten,

Thanks for your posting.

Bob is correct, you need more hardware to do what you want to. You need to have the dedicated server. The reason you want this, is to play the role of managing the client connections and the storage files. Your server IS the point of access in cases of the clients connected to it…If you get into an Intel Mac (Quad Core or better—) it will come with TWO Ethernet ports.

If you only have just the two workstations, you can certainly suffice doing a direct connect to the server — giving each one their own link (which is what you want…) — in the future, if you need more connections, invest in a Multi Port Card to install at the server, and voila! More Connections!

Here’s some other answers to your questions …

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1. Can I set up the old G5 as a fileserver, and connect through fast (link-aggregated) Gigabit ethernet?
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You can use a G5, there are lots doing it, however, under a Pro Res environment, you may find that this starts to bog down under pressure. G5’s are Power PC systems, and therefore they are not near as good as an Intel Mac, but they can still hold up to some extent.
(certainly not recommended to run anything less then a Quad Core Intel MacPro or XServe though….)

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2. Should I retire X-Raid and invest in Apace Systems storage, or is 10gigabit ethernet soon on its way?
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Okay, there are two things to this I see ..

First, a Storage question, if you’re looking for the recommendation, I’m sure someone will advise. I do not really know if either of these will be able to keep up with Pro Res the way you need it to…
(I’m making reference to more then just Bandwidth BTW….please be aware that it one of several performance measurements to be weary of…)

Second, 10Gb for Mac has been around for a LONG TIME. There’s a company called Small Tree that has been bringing 10Gb Ethernet products to Mac since November 2005 when they released Intel’s 10Gb PCI X driver with hardware for XServe.

https://www.small-tree.com/Articles.asp?id=151

If you really want to be hooked up, you can implement CAT6a, and you’ll be ready for 10Gb. (this exists today, more in point to point applications right now …) — Fibre Channel over Ethernet is also coming (FCoE), and will be here creeping into people’s environments in late 2010 early 2011.

Today, Small Tree brings Intel’s entire Pro1000 and Pro10Gbe Line to the Mac market place…..

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3. Should I equip new MacPro with Fibrechannel, and setup a SAN with software like Tiger Technology?
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You don’t need ANY of this to be honest …. You can do what you want with just getting the hardware you need and setting up the network properly etc …

Hope this helps you.

[Nathaniel Cooper]

Hey Morton,

Here are a couple of options I would recommend and have had success with.

Option 1
– Add an inexpensive switch (qlogic 1400) $2000
– Add SAN software (Volume level SANmp, file level MetaSAN or Xsan) I’d recommend at least trying SANmp and MetaSAN as you can get free trials of both products. $1000 or so per seat
– Cables and extra FC card – $1500

Total cost: Around $5500

::Advantages:: You’re not using the processing of any of your workstations to host file shares, this is huge if you’re running on an older machine like a G5. You’re also using existing hardware, which is nice. This will give you as much performance as an Xserve RAID will offer. Tried and true method.
::Disadvantages:: You still have to connect with the laptop through a file share. No extra storage.

Option 2
– Add a Studio Network Solutions EVO – $15,000

::Advantages::Adds 8TB of storage. Allows you to bridge the XRAID to the laptop via iSCSI, this gives greater video performance on GigE connections. No need for an FC switch. Allows expansion over FC or GigE. Compatible with SANmp, MetaSAN, Xsan.
::Disadvantages:: Cost goes up compared to other option.

10Gb seems like a bad way to go to me, at this point in the market. You’d spend a good chunk of money getting a true 10Gb fabric and would still be limited on the laptops. It’s just makes more sense to stick with FC, in my opinion.

Nate Cooper
ncooper@studionetworksolutions.com
818 209 1331

[Matt Geier]

Morten,

I will tell you that what Nate says in his post is all true (except maybe the comment about 10Gb, that’s more of his opinion…) 🙂

In your particular environment, 10Gb certainly isn’t going to boost you much, although, that may depend on what kind of video streams you’re working with…

What are your video stream format requirements?

The bottom line …

Is the reality that a Fibre Channel SAN can do the job here, as well as an Ethernet environment, Gigabit or 10Gb, if configured correctly in either case.

There’s absolutely no reason to not adopt 10Gb Ethernet because you don’t think it’s really there. The fact remains that there are many many users of 10Gb in Apple environments and that market continues to grow every day, especially now with FCoE coming and what it promises to bring Ethernet environments.

Both of these (FC and Ethernet) are Proven Technologies and have been around for 20+ years. What’s going to drive the purchase of one solution set or another is going to be primarily cost, and the technical support, or solution management support you receive after your purchase.

When looking, you should compare Price / Performance / Scalability / and Support in the solution as a whole, not one part of a solution compared to another part of another separate solution.

The reality of Ethernet Performance on a Mac…

Gigabit Speeds from an editing client can be achieved and sustained at 30-90MB/sec inside a Jumbo Frame network. (obviously a determining factor is how much you actually use on the wire in any given scenario)

Being able to achieve 90MB/sec, means you can comfortably fit two streams of Pro Res HQ on the wire. Further more, as long as the storage has enough read/write bandwidth, and the overall hardware profile is fast enough together (client to server to storage, then back…), then you can successfully move a Pro Res HQ stream back and forth in Real Time just fine in Gigabit Ethernet.

For requirments where you have a significant amount more of usage or bandwidth needs, 10Gb Speeds can be sustained between 200-300MB/sec.

Again, as long as the storage has enough read/write bandwidth, and the overall hardware profile is fast enough together (client to server to storage, then back…), then you can successfully move a Pro Res HQ stream back and forth in Real Time just fine in 10Gb Ethernet.

Real Time editing environments…

When someone sits down to create real time, shared storage, video editing environment, they are mostly focused on providing network bandwidth to their users. This is the reality, there are a lot of people doing it. What happens though, is people become surprised when they sit there, do the math, and say everything will work because all the bandwidth read and write numbers jive, or a vendor said they could do XYZ. They rush off, buy the pieces, put it together, and low and behold, it doesn’t work the way they thought!

If someone is designing a real time video editing shared storage solution for you, to meet your needs, then whatever you get, Fibre Channel or otherwise, better hold up at the conditions you’ve specified, otherwise the solution has failed, period, plain and simple.

There are a lot of solutions available to you. I hope this helps with some additional information about Ethernet possibilities.

[Marc Bostrøm]

Hi Morten,

I live just around the corner… We have tried Meta-Lan and we are currently working from a shared AFP system with 3 seats. Give me a call and I’ll show you how it works at our place.

Marc Bostrom
-| just another PRO FCP user |-

[Morten]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, and Marc thanks for the offer. I will give you a call in a week.

My requirements are 2 streams of ProResHQ, so 1Gbit Ethernet seems like the way to go. I have been warned that SAN systems require quite some IT skills and maintenance, which is likely to overwork me in the long run. My reseller has come up with a quote for an Apacesystems V2100 which is supposed to support my requirements, and the price is about $10000. Anybody have experience with this unit?

Also the new iMac looks like a cheap solution for a new editing system, but don’t know if it supports Jumboframes?

– No Parking Production –

Finalcut Studio2, Dual G5, Kona 2, ioHD, X-Raid

[Bob Zelin]

the iMAC’s all support jumbo frames. In an ethernet AFP editing enviornment, an iMAC is more useful than an “old” PowerMAC G5 PCI-X machine (unless you add a Small Tree PXG1D card).

Bob Zelin