A few bits about EX1 shutter, blurs and transfer

[Craig Seeman]

There should be a difference between shutter speed and shutter angle regarding how the camera handles changes in frame rate for example. Shoot at 720p24 at 1/48 and change to 720p60 and the shutter is still at 1/48. Do the same with shutter angel 180

[Randy Strome]

“Interlace is recorded sequentially otherwise there would no difference in recorded motion between them. Just watch the jitter on an interlaced frame of any subject or camera movement, on a TV monitor.”

Thanks Craig, that was my guess. I was getting ready to type a response to Mark’s question below, and realized that I was not 100% sure myself.

“A question though… wouldnt shooting 1080p be the same thing as shooting 1080i and then rendering the final video to a HQ WMV file 1080 progressive? Or is there a difference? ”

As Craig clarified above, software would be trying to manufacture a single whole frame from two temporally difffernt halves. More accurately, by software blurring the lines from one half (or one field) into a complete frame. I found this here:

https://neuron2.net/LVG/interlacing.html

[Randy Strome]

[Craig Seeman] “There should be a difference between shutter speed and shutter angle regarding how the camera handles changes in frame rate for example. Shoot at 720p24 at 1/48 and change to 720p60 and the shutter is still at 1/48. Do the same with shutter angel 180

[Mark Palmos]

[Ron Shook] “First of all a shutter speed of 100th of a second is not that fast. It oughta be a bit better at a significantly faster shutter speed.”

Hi there ron,
kinda,
but im comparing a first impression of my ex1 with my lowly XL-1 and with the xl1 i dont see the instant degradation when panning. I will render a bit of the file i am talking about and upload it sometime soon.

i dont think tests which pans WITH the subject is the most useful. A pan OF the subject is more telling… preferably a wide angle shot of a leafy landscape!

speak soon
cheers mate
mark.

[Ron Shook]

Mark,

[Mark Palmos] “but im comparing a first impression of my ex1 with my lowly XL-1 and with the xl1 i dont see the instant degradation when panning.”

I would expect those results when the DV codec on the XL1 is intra frame in SD at 25 mbps while the EX1 codec is inter frame (GOP) pushing 6 times the pixels at 35 mbps. The EX1 codec is certainly several times more efficient than the DV codec, but several times is not 6 times and somethings gotta give, and that would be resolution.

[Mark Palmos] “A pan OF the subject is more telling… preferably a wide angle shot of a leafy landscape!”

This is the worst case scenario for EX1’s type of compression. I’d suggest that it probably still matches or comes very close to matching the HVX200’s lower resolution to start with, but it’s not gonna look as good as when the camera is stable and not moving.

Ron Shook

[Randy Strome]

Really interesting and informative Ron. 720 24P with a smaller spatial and temporal resolution should cut out enough data to allow for detail to be maintained to a relatively high degree even in pans. How well does the codec adjust?

[Ron Shook]

Randy,

[Randy strome] “720 24P with a smaller spatial and temporal resolution should cut out enough data to allow for detail to be maintained to a relatively high degree even in pans.”

Right you are. At 720p you’re talking 4 rather than 6 times the pixel resolution of DV and of course 24p data is less than half the data of 60p. I don’t have the camera so I can’t test, but Mark or someone else should give it a try and let us know. I suspect that panning a lot of detail will not exhibit such a resoluton loss as Mark reports in his initial tests.

If you ever get a chance try the same panning test at 720p60 with a 200 series JVC HDV camcorder. Like the EX1 it’s nearly impossible to break the codec into blocking artifacts and such, but you’re lucky to get SD resolution out of it in some instances. The JVC codec is the standard 720p HDV at less than 19mbps. It’s kind of rule of thumb that with a long GOP MPEG2 codec, small increases in the mbps rates can sometimes result in dramatically better performance and the Sony codec is nearly twice the data rate of the 720p HDV codec.

[Randy strome] “How well does the codec adjust?”

Sony usually does as good or better than anyone else with compression codecs, but really you’ll have to tell me. (g)

Ron Shook

[Mark Palmos]

hi Ron,
i will have to do some more testing, though im working all week and the way things are going, perhaps on the weekend too.. that be looking at a computer screen editing…

come to think of it, the blur i noticed was more on the pan than the zoom out, so it cant be JUST the change of info in the screen, but somehow the side to side motion, slow as it was, caused what was surprising blur.

i will see if its on my laptop. if so, i will ftp it tonight as a mov file. (and will tell you where!)

catcha later
mark.

[Mark Palmos]

hey there ron
RH mouse click and save link as…
https://www.finalcutpro.tv/748_0025_01.mov

it is now uploaded…
please excuse the shitty shot, no tripod and it was very cold and…

the moment I find telling is the second the zoom is about to stop and the pan starts, look at the white window frame in the middle of the image, see how the white frame blurs substantially when there is even a slight sideways movement.

then see my dirty lens as i pan into the sun (nobody has suggested lens cleaning tools and im VERY suspicicious of putting any liquid on a lens). Permanent polarizing filters anyone?

till later
mark.

[Ron Shook]

Mark,

[Mark Palmos] “hey there ron
RH mouse click and save link as…
” target=”_blank”>https://www.finalcutpro.tv/748_0025_01.mov”

I did this that and it’ll play only audio. QT claims that there is some component missing but doesn’t say which one and presents me with a list of 10 or 15 components. QT player says that it is completely up to date. What codec was used on this file?

What gives? Anyone else have trouble playing this file on a Windoz machine?

Ron Shook