720/25P vs 720/25PN ?

[Nigel]

Maybe better if I shoot PN to both P2 and Firestore so there are no complications?

[Shane Ross]

As I said, you cannot shoot PN to the firestore. It only shoots 24P at 59.94fps…24p with pulldown.

Shane

Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net

[Nigel]

Sorry, I meant to say shoot 720P/25P to both P2 card and Firestore; this would work right?

[Gary Adcock]

[Marcus van Bavel] “720p25 is stored in a 1080i50 stream so every other frame is redundant.”

Not correct marcus

720p25 is stored in a 720p50 video stream, 1080psf25 is laid into the 1080i50 using a 2:2:2:2 patter where every 1080 frame is separated into 2 fields

ga

Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Chicago, IL
gary@studio37.com

[Gary Adcock]

[iMan] “Sorry, I meant to say shoot 720P/25P to both P2 card and Firestore; this would work right?”

iMAN
there is NO 25PN mode on the firestore, only 25p – All attached FW devices accept the video as if they were being recorded to tape.

FCP does NOT currently support 720p25 or 720p50 properly

Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Chicago, IL
gary@studio37.com

[Marcus Van bavel]

[gary adcock] “720p25 is stored in a 720p50 video stream, 1080psf25 is laid into the 1080i50 using a 2:2:2:2 patter where every 1080 frame is separated into 2 fields

ga”

Gary what is the SMPTE spec for 720p50? SMPTE 370M describes 1080i60, 720p60 and 1080i50, but no
720p50. Also the frames for 720/25pn as recorded by the HVX200 take up exactly half the same amount of space as a 1080i50 frame, and they take up more space per frame than 720/30pn or 720/24pn. (288,000 bytes vs 240,000 for 720/30pn). Did you know that?

[Barry Green]

I was curious about the statement about 1080/50i as well (that 720/25p is transported within the 720/50i stream). That seems quite curious, but — Marcus has written his own DVCPRO-HD codec and probably knows more about it than all the rest of us combined.

I would expect that a 720/50p frame would take up more space than a frame from a 720/60p stream, since 100 megabits / 50 fps = 2 megabits per frame, vs. 100 megabits / 60 fps = 1.67 megabits per frame. But does that necessarily mean that it’s carried in a 1080 stream? Or that they’ve just updated the standard for the new 720/50p stream?

Marcus, I sent you contact info for someone from Panasonic EU — hopefully he can help you to understand everything they changed in the new 720/50p and 720/25p modes.

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[Mike Schrengohst]

I have Raylight and will upgrade in short order.
I will have a bunch of 720/25p footage coming in.
I will report back…..

Mike Schrengohst
http://www.MotionZoneHD.com

[Gary Adcock]

[Marcus van Bavel] < "SMPTE 370M describes 1080i60, 720p60 and 1080i50, but no 720p50. " SMPTE 296 has the listing for the 1280×720 progressive HD recording format and I do not believe there is an included standard for 720p50 listed in the current doc’s online. https://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/standards/index.cfm?scope=0&stdtype=smpte&CurrentPage=12

[Marcus van Bavel] ” Also the frames for 720/25pn as recorded by the HVX200 take up exactly half the same amount of space as a 1080i50 frame, and they take up more space per frame than 720/30pn or 720/24pn. (288,000 bytes vs 240,000 for 720/30pn). Did you know that?”

Marcus that would be correct. Recording in the PN modes always result in less data being captured because there are not any additional frames being added. The 24PN modes respond the same, being 1/2 the size on P2 that the 1080 formats require.

As for the difference in actual file size, I do not have a current version of the HVX200E (25p) camera to test your numbers but I think that is the difference within the color space and number of audio channels and their compression (but I could be wrong)

Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Chicago, IL
gary@studio37.com

[Marcus Van bavel]

[gary adcock] “Marcus that would be correct. Recording in the PN modes always result in less data being captured because there are not any additional frames being added”

I’m comparing one pn mode to another pn mode, (25pn to 24pn for example) and I’m talking about the number of bytes per frame. It’s different for the 50Hz camera. There are 240,000 bytes of good data but sitting inside a block of 288,000. This is why Apple, Avid and Canopus were all caught by surprise and can’t presently read the 720/25pn format. It does work with Raylight, though, and the new version of DVFilm Maker (2.3) which will be released later this week.