60i to 24p, Graphics, CinemaTools and DVD Output

[Graeme Nattress]

You can’t do the above on an edited movie, only on source footage before you edit it. That’s because on each edit the 3:2 pulldown pattern will change.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Boyd Mccollum]

[KMimsey] “1) How do I handle mixing frame rates on the timeline? “

You need to get all your footage to the same framerate AND codec for editing.

I don’t know anything about the V1 – does it need to be 23.98 to playback correctly or is it designed to playback at 29.97? (with the DVX 100 for instance, 24p is designed to playback and look right at 29.97, while 24pA needs to playback at 23.98).

What is the final output requirements? 24p or 60i? HD or SD? And which to you have more footage of? You probably need to convert your HDV to the same codec as your DV footage, (Standard Def DV25). You could drop your HDV footage onto a DV/NTSC timeline and render. It may be that you can go back out to the V1 and then reimport it as SD DV.

You can also use compressor to up rez your DV footage to HD if that’s what you need to do. Export as a QT movie (either self contained or reference), then import into Compressor. Make sure you use the same codec that you are going to convert your HDV timeline to (photo-jpeg codec per the article). You need to have the same codec on the timeline.

If the footage from the V1 can playback at 60i, you should be okay. If not, follow the information in the article you provided. The directions aren’t totally clear, but you drop your HDV footage into the proscribed timeline, *but* don’t convert to photo jpeg if you need to end up with DV25 to work with your other footage. Render. Export as self contained movie or reference file. Open Cinema Tools, locate the QT movie you made and follow the directions. That movie will only be one clip. Go in a second per the instructions to find the A frame.

You may need to use the Nattress Standards Converter to turn your DV 60i stuff into 23.98 so that you can edit with your HDV originated material.

[KMimsey] “Do I need to delete the DV footage from the timeline that I’m going to make a QT file out of and reverse telecine, then add them back in on the new timeline afterwards?”

No.

[KMimsey] ”
2) When I create the QT file, do I make it self-contained?”

It’s not necessary – I usually do, but that’s a preference with no real grounding in logic.

[KMimsey] “What about animated LiveType clips?”

Don’t copy those over to your new timeline and render. Do all of the other stuff, then at the end, on your final timeline, put them back in. Right now they are resolution independent, but if you render them, they become part of the movie and when you scale and do other things, they will lose sharpness, etc.

[KMimsey] “4) Just to make sure, I only need to export the timeline as a QT and reverse telecine, not the individual clips, right?”

Yes.

[KMimsey] “5) What is the best method for exporting this at the highest quality without the capability of using BlueRay HD DVD’s?”

From your final timeline, export a QT movie. Import into Compressor, select best quality for the duration of the project. You can’t add quality at this point. You only have what you have. Trying to go out to any other codec first before making your mpeg2 file will just add more compression then what you already have.

[Boyd Mccollum]

modify my input based on what Graeme said!

[Graeme Nattress]

I’mhoping the HDV looks ok playing back at 29.97fps as it would take you forever to remove the pulldown to get it into a 23.9i8fps timeline.

If you need your DV to match the 24p of the HDV, if you’re in a:

23.98fps timeline, My Standards Converter plugin will help,

or,

if you’re going to end up in the 29.97fps timeline, then Film Effects does 24p + 3:2 pulldown into a 29.97fps timeline which will work great also.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Katie Mims]

Unfortunately, that makes perfect sense. Bummer.

[Katie Mims]

[Graeme Nattress] “‘mhoping the HDV looks ok playing back at 29.97fps as it would take you forever to remove the pulldown to get it into a 23.9i8fps timeline.”

Actually, it doesn’t look that great when I play it while editing. I don’t know if it’s because it is 24A captured in the 60i stream and edited on a 29.97 timeline, or if it is because I am not editing on a HDV monitor. I use a PowerBook G4 laptop to edit.

I’m guessing it is probably because it needs the pulldown removed to get it onto a 23.98 timeline. What do you think the most effective way to do this will be?

Can I use CinemaTools to reverse-telecine each individual clip, then reconnect the new reversed footage?

I have FilmEffects and Big Box of Tricks. Is there a specific filter that I can apply to the entire timeline to remove the pulldown? If I did that, I’m guessing I would need to copy/paste everything onto a 23.98 timeline, then apply the pulldown remover?

My understanding is that in order to get things to look proper, everything needs to end up on a 23.98 timeline. I could very well be wrong though.

What can you tell me about the right way to export this for DVD once I get the pulldown figured out? I don’t have a Blue Ray burner, so I’m guessing it would be SD and not HD.

[Graeme Nattress]

TO get everything right you’d have to remove the pulldown on each and every clip, but I doubt there’s a way to re-link that as timecode would get lost doing the pulldown removal as you’d have to convert to another codec other than HDV to use Cinema Tools. It might work, but I’d not personally be confident.

Only way to know for certain about the footage is to view it on a proper HD monitor. Without that, you’re only guessing.

Film Effects and BBOT don’t have any pulldown tricks in them. Film Effects will help you match the DV footage on a 29.97fps timeline, but that’s about it.

You don’t NEED a 24p DVD. Yes, they do look best, but no, you don’t need it for the end product to look good.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Katie Mims]

So the HDV codec won’t work in Cinema Tools? That’s odd, since that is what the directions I liked to said to use with Cinema Tools. Also, when I reverse-telecine clips in CT, do I always need to find the A frame?

What codec would be good to convert to, and what is the easiest way to convert?

Unfortunately I’m working out of the Bahamas right now, and we don’t have any HD monitors or TV’s. So I guess I’ll just have to guess. The footage not looking so good is most likely the lack of a HD monitor, correct? What else might it be, and if it is that, what do I need to do to it in order to get it to look good (i.e. on a DVD to be shown through a projector hooked up to a laptop).

This is such a nightmare. So let me make sure I have this right…

In order to totally fix my problem, my only option is to remove the pulldown in every clip, and then re-insert it into the timeline? What would the timeline settings need to be for this? 23.98, correct? Are there any other options here?

Thank you so much for your help. I can’t believe I’ve gotten myself in such a pinch with this!

[Graeme Nattress]

Ah, but the instructions get you to convert the HDV to PhotoJPEG75%, which is a good codec for this purpose. Practically any codec will work, as long as it’s not MPEG based.

Yes, you must find the A frame. That’s why it takes so long to do as that is rather tricky.

The FCP display is progressive, so 24p in a 60i timeline on a progressive display will jump and jerk twice as much as it will on a proper HD display.

For a total fix yes, you’re correct. However, I’d hope things look “ok” enough on a HD display that you don’t have to.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Katie Mims]

Since I don’t have an HD display and this needs to be shown tomorrow, looks like I’ll have a long night ahead of me!

Any tips on finding the A frame? I’ve had a really difficult time with that so far.

[Graeme Nattress] “The FCP display is progressive, so 24p in a 60i timeline on a progressive display will jump and jerk twice as much as it will on a proper HD display.”

So once I remove the pulldown and it is all on a 23.98 timeline, it shouldn’t jump and jerk as much as it does now, even on a regular FCP display?