5D and 7D footage in the same FCP timeline

[Rafael Amador]

[Philippe Gariepy] “Or do I just need to drop the 29,97 footage in the 23,98 timeline and it will work just fine? And if I do so, will I find myself having to rener the footage every time I do a small change in it?”
Then probably you will have the beach ball spinning forever, or FC crashing.
H264, as you know, is not an editing codec, and FC is not brilliant in changing time-bases.
The easier and shorter paths often end up being the longest and more complicated.
Do the things as should be done from the beginning.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Philippe Gariepy]

“H264, as you know, is not an editing codec”

I know that. As I said, I will transcode everything in Apple Pro Res before I start to edit. What I’m wondering is : while I compress the 5D footage, should I do something else to turn it in 23,98? Or should I leave it in 29,97?

I’ve never worked with CinemaTools or had to change frame rates, so my question might seem a bit ridiculous, I just want to make sure that my workflow is the best one for the project. And this project requires me to play with footage with different frame rates. I know that it’s not ideal, but I have to deal with what I’m given.

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Philipp,
When working with footage with different time-bases, the rule is get everything in a common time base.
You can not do it in FC (or better, you shouldn’t) neither with CinemaTools.
CimeTools, “Conform”, that means that your 29’98 would play at 23’97fps, but in slow motion. So that work basically when going 25><24, or when going 60/50 to 30/25.
You need to convert the time-base in Compressor or MPGStreamclip.
You are thinking to convert the 29’98 footage to 23’97, but think that the picture will look better when going 23’97 to 29’98.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Michael Sacci]

Retiming 29.97 to 23.98 and getting getting good quality is a really tricky thing. Most software does not do a very good job with this conversion at all. Using a program like Shake or Magic Bullet Frames do a much better job with the frame blending.

[Philippe Gariepy]

So basically, my best bet would be to edit in 29,97 fps and retime the 7D footage to fit, is that right?

While we’re at it, what’s the technical reason why it works best this way and not the opposite? I would have thought that it would look better going from 29,97 to 23,98 because it would mean, in my mind at least, removing some frames, as opposed to creating new ones. Anyone has the time and will to clarify this?

[John Kaley]

If your 29.97 footage is b-roll and the sound doesn’t have to sync, you can use Compressor to do the frame rate conversion.

In the “Frame Controls” tab, select Rate Conversion: Best (High quality motion compensated)
Then check the box “”so source frames play at 23.98”

Render away (get a good book).

Since the source frame rate was 29.97 and you are conforming to 23.976, your footage will have a subtle so-mo effect to it. This may be good or bad depending on it’s use.

[Philippe Gariepy]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that there wasn’t any synched sound involved in the edit. Both cameras are equally important as they were both filming the same event at the same time and we have to edit a small trailer for the event.

I might want to avoid the slo-mo effect. Is there any other way to avoid this?

[Bret Williams]

Removing frames will result in a gap in the action. Why would that look better?

Ever since film (24fps) has been transferred to Video (30fps) pulldown has been the amazingly beautiful perfect way to go about it. Mainly because of interlacing. You’re really transconding 24fps to 60fps. No frame blending is necessary. Out of every 5 frames, 2 are a field mix of the surrounding frames. So the frames sort of overlap. Frame 1, frame 2, frame 3&4 mixed, frame 4&5mixed, frame 5.

Although the above does create interlaced frames, it still is would be progressive visually. It’s the way every hollywood DVD or VHS has been shown on your television for quite awhile and there haven’t been many complaints.

[Philippe Gariepy]

This makes sense.

So, just to clarify : I would definitely be better off editng a 29,97 fps timeline, with my 7D footage compressed to fit it in Compressor.

Excellent. Thanks everyone, this was extremely helpful. If there is anything else I need to know, let me know.

[Bret Williams]

Yes. I can’t think of a reason you’d want to edit 24 unless you had to matchback to film. If you end up making a 24fps DVD, it’s going to end up with pulldown added to bump it up to 29.97 anyway. Unless someone has a progressive scan setup. Most aren’t savy enough to dig into their dvd player menus and set up their progressive scan DVD players for progressive scan even when they do have the right equipment.

I have only done a true full 24p project once, because it was all shot in 24p so I made the animation in 24p and then the DVD in true 24p. Looks the same as 24p with pulldown added to me.

All that said. You can’t just drop 24p in a 29.97 sequence. FCP doesn’t add pulldown. It just duplicates every 4th frame.the 24p has to go thru compressor or AE Or like software tp add the pulldown.