59.94 not Dropframe?

[Leo Ticheli]

There is NO drop frame in VariCam footage. To get to a non-drop format, you have to edit your drop-frame show with accurate running time, then clone to a drop-frame tape.

Some questions:

Why not FCP 5.0?

Was the project shot at 24p? Why edit in a 59.94 timeline rather than 24p?

If you were going to 1080i, why did you not edit at 1080i? The Panasonic deck can output 1080i, and it’s usually better to work in the final format. Why use the Terranex at all if you can simply spit out 1080i natively?

Best regards,
Leo

Director/Cinematographer
Southeast USA

[Walter Biscardi]

[Leo Ticheli] “Why not FCP 5.0?”

Not comfortable putting FCP 5 right into a broadcast series. FCP 4.5 is very stable with OS 10.3.8 and I don’t want a new OS and new FCP .0 version on this show.

[Leo Ticheli] ”
Was the project shot at 24p? Why edit in a 59.94 timeline rather than 24p?”

The show was rolled into a 1200A deck which was left at 59.94. What would 24p buy me with a show that ends up at 29.97 drop frame?

[Leo Ticheli] “If you were going to 1080i, why did you not edit at 1080i? The Panasonic deck can output 1080i, and it’s usually better to work in the final format. Why use the Terranex at all if you can simply spit out 1080i natively?”

Terranex is specified by the network for any footage shot with the Varicam in 720p.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Leo Ticheli]

I understand your reluctance to upgrade; perhaps you can use one of your suites as the test while you leapfrog to the next OS. FCP 5 is very powerful and seems to work well with our DeckLink HD Pro cards. Surely it works just as well with AJA.

There are a few advantages to editing HD in a 24 frame timeline. Aside from the savings in disc space, you eliminate the 3/2 pull-down cadence so you can edit on any two adjoining frames. Breaking the cadence in pull-down can have very nasty effects with machines that try to remove the combined frames if the cadence is broken.

I would cut the show either with a 24 fps timeline or directly to 1080i. Perhaps you can talk to the network and get them to revisit their Terranex demand.

Otherwise, you’ll just have to learn to love it!

Best regards,
Leo

Director/Cinematographer
Southeast USA

[Walter Biscardi]

[Leo Ticheli] “I would cut the show either with a 24 fps timeline or directly to 1080i. Perhaps you can talk to the network and get them to revisit their Terranex demand.”

Not my call to make. I’m just the editor, that’s up to the Production Company and I’m quite certain they are not going to make that call.

Have you captured from the 1200A to 1080i for a broadcast show and had their Quality Control approve the edit?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Walter Biscardi]

[Leo Ticheli] “I understand your reluctance to upgrade; perhaps you can use one of your suites as the test while you leapfrog to the next OS. FCP 5 is very powerful and seems to work well with our DeckLink HD Pro cards. Surely it works just as well with AJA.”

Sorry, forgot to mention, FCP Studio is running on both our remote system and our second suite, but not in the HD suite yet. We’re testing it to be sure it works reliably before moving it to any mission critical projects.

Also, just heard from our Panasonic rep that 59.94 IS Drop Frame according to them. I told them Apple didn’t get the memo because all the timelines are non-drop frame.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Leo Ticheli]

At 24 fps there is NO drop-frame from VariCam. Period. Here’s the information straight from the camera manual:

“When the frame rate is set to 24 fps, this unit will
perform the processing in the non-drop frame mode
in order to maintain the continuity of the frames
even when the time code has been set to the drop
frame mode.”

We don’t edit 1080i, but it’s available for you if you choose. We’ve only experimented with 1080i out of the decks to make sure it works. It does.

Perhaps you can talk to the production company and urge them to adopt a more straight-forward work-flow in consultation with the network. It’s not always the case, but usually simpler is superior, with fewer steps on the video.

Hope you solve your problems!

Best regards,

Leo
Director/Cinematographer
Southeast USA

[Walter Biscardi]

[Leo Ticheli] “”When the frame rate is set to 24 fps, this unit will
perform the processing in the non-drop frame mode”

That’s good for 24p frame rate, but the deck was recording in 59.94 with the user bits OFF and those are the tapes we’re using.

We’ll get it figured out eventually. The big issue right now is frame accuracy coming out of Final Cut Pro. We even when supposedly hooked up directly to a D5 machine, the edits were slipping a frame here, a frame there. I have a D5 coming into the shop next week and we’re going to get to the bottom of this issue.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Leo Ticheli]

Panasonic DVCPro HD decks, both in the camera and outboard, always capture at 59.94 all the time; what matters is the frame-rate set on the camera. If your material was shot at 24 fps, it must be non-drop frame.

I’m not sure what you mean by lack of frame accuracy coming out of FCP. How is this revealing itself? Are you simply controlling and recording to the D5?

Just as a test, you might try doing a 1080i edit directly from the deck; I really think that might be your best bet. You can still run the material through the Terranex to satisfy any requirements the network is demanding.

Please let us know how things work out. Hope you nail it down soon.

Best regards,
Leo

Director/Cinematographer
Southeast USA

[Walter Biscardi]

[Leo Ticheli] “I’m not sure what you mean by lack of frame accuracy coming out of FCP. How is this revealing itself? Are you simply controlling and recording to the D5?”

Edit To Tape from FCP 4.5 to a D5 via RS-422 control I was getting one to two frame slippage. FCP was not connected directly to the deck, it was conncted via a router system to the deck.

I’ve spoken with several people now who have confirmed that FCP 4.5 can have a slippage due to the play trigger in the app. FCP 5 has supposedly corrected this issue and it’s now frame / field accurate. I’m going to test both systems next week when the D5 deck arrives here at the shop and we can test under controlled circumstances.

I’m going to look at 1080i captures tomorrow when I resume testing the show. Thanks for your input as always.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Leo Ticheli]

Thanks, Wally, that’s very useful information about FCP 4.5.

Keep us posted!

All the best,

Leo
Director/Cinematographer
Southeast USA