3d stacking problem in AE

[Tom Gomez]

Well, I’d say it needs to be re-engineered then by golly. I’ll definitely put in a feature request. I’m glad I learned this tidbit. There’s a ton of people out there who are driven crazy by this. It’s in the manual… but it’s just not intuitive that applying an effect could mess something up.

I’m a big fan of adobe… I’m sure they’ll do the right thing! 🙂

Thanks for your help Walter!

================================================
YOU can help save TimeSpace. Join the Chronos Protectorate!

https://www.95ers.com
https://www.SpaceAceMedia.com

[Jon Bagge]

It’s almost certainly not possible to re-engineer this without fundamentally changing the way effects work, which will completely break every project ever made.

This has to do with the After effects render order. AE normally renders in the following order:
1. Masks
2. Effects
3. Transforms
4. Layer Styles

3D is part of the transforms. This is where layers get scaled, rotated, placed in 3D space and possibly intersect each other.
So masks & effects on 3D layers are fine, since they will be calculated before the 3D calculations.

Layer styles are not fine, since you can’t add a layer style to a layer that has already been placed in 3d space (and may be interacting with other layers)

Adjustment layers also break 3D, because an adjustment layer is applied to the composite of everything below. You can’t do that unless you’ve calculated the composite first.

If you use collapse transformations you change the render order. The order is now:
1. Transforms
2. Masks (masks might still be before transforms, I’m not sure)
3. Effects
4. Layer styles

This allows the transforms in your main comp to be applied directly to the transforms in the sub comp, so they’re calculated together. Thus 3D objects in your main comp can interact with 3D objects in your sub comp.

As above you can’t then apply effects and layer styles after the objects have been placed in 3D space together.

You have to apply textures and effects to the individual layers before they’re put in 3D space. This is not that different from the basic principle of a real 3D program, except AE is limited to flat layers and is missing many other 3D features.

————–
https://www.jonbagge.net
Jon Bagge – Editor – London, UK
Avid – FCP – After Effects

[Tom Gomez]

I appreciate everyone’s input on this and I’m glad to understand AE’s “brain” better.

I’m sure it would be a big challenge to add this functionality… but I think it’s well WELL worth it. People are using AE so much now for 3d compositing, and 2.5d projects are not only “in style” but so wonderfully budget-friendly, that it’s a win-win for creative pros, industry, clients, and Adobe. The ability to put effects on 3d layers would be a huge addition and a massive time saver.

================================================
YOU can help save TimeSpace. Join the Chronos Protectorate!

https://www.95ers.com
https://www.SpaceAceMedia.com

[Walter Soyka]

[Tom Durham] “The ability to put effects on 3d layers would be a huge addition and a massive time saver.”

Just to clarify, you can put effects on 3D layers without breaking 3D space. Like Jon said, the render order is METL; effects are rendered before transformations, so effects don’t break 3D.

It’s a 3D precomp layer, even with collapse transformations turned on, whose contained 3D layers will not intersect correctly anymore once an effect is applied to the precomp. All effects are 2D, so when you apply the effect, AE must compute the 2D composite of all the 3D layers within the precomp in order to render it.

Applying the effect individually to each of the 3D layers within all your 3D precomps would allow normal intersection.

Here’s a workaround for you: pt_EffectSearch [link]. This will allow you to search for effects, turn them on or off, or link them together.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Tom Gomez]

Right. 3D precomp layers. Most of my 3d layers are precomps, so my brain defaults that way. 🙂

Thanks again gents. It really helps to understand this stuff. I’ve been doing AE stuff for over 10 years now–in fact it’s the heart of sci-fi feature I’m finishing now–and it’s awesome. I just want it to get cooler and cooler…

================================================
YOU can help save TimeSpace. Join the Chronos Protectorate!

https://www.95ers.com
https://www.SpaceAceMedia.com

[Aaron De azevedo]

I was having a stacking problem and all the proposed fixes didn’t work. After some tests, I found that If you have a floor plain that intersects with other objects, this can cause them to render out of order!

[Juan Ibanez]

Guys, just for the sake of supporting the information of this issue on AE, parented layers seem to have the same problem with 3D occlusion and layer stacking order. So precomposing should be the best way to solve it.

Thanks to all. Cheers.