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30F and 24F frame rates
New Year means new upgrades and I have used Canon products and am happy thus far. I realize this is not the proper forum but I do trust the leaders and members real world opinions. So I would appreciate the pros and cons of the Canon XL H1A. Had not come across the very odd 30f and 24f frame rate as described in the specs. My shooting is very varied from sports to concerts, documentaries, town hall meetings, corporate promos and the like so I’m sure there are better choices for different applications. I do like the use of MiniDV as an inexpensive media but not crazy about the transfer of data times. So with that I hope as always to hear back from those who know better.
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7 Replies
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> Had not come across the very odd 30f and 24f frame rate as described in the specs
The problem with HDV is that there is no standard way to lay down 24p or 30p to tape. The HDV tape format only supports 50i & 60i so each manufacturer uses a different pulldown algorithm to get 24p into a 60i stream. This is why Cannon calls it “24f” and Sony calls it “CineFrame24”. It’s not true “24p”. Using these formats also requires you to capture with the same brand of camera that you shoot with. So, for example, you can’t just give these tapes to someone who doesn’t have a Cannon HDV camera and expect them to be able to read them like they could DV tapes.
Having said that, if you are shooting sports you don’t want to use 24f mode anyway. You want the highest frame rate possible to catch all of the action. So unless you are making your next blockbuster “film”, I would stay away from these modes and shoot 60i or 50i depending on your country format (NTSC or PAL respectively). I consider these modes “artistic tools” to be use when appropriate.
> I do like the use of MiniDV as an inexpensive media but not crazy about the transfer of data times
I use a Sony HVR-DR60 Hard Disk Recording Unit with my Sony HVR-Z1U. This allows me to record to both tape (for archive) and hard disc simultaneously. I don’t have to capture anymore. I just drag and drop the files from the HDRU to my PC hard drive and start editing. There are other units out there like this that work with Cannon cameras. You might want to look into it.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
I agree with JR, use 60i for capture (I use Sony camcorders and love them), most any changes I do to the video would be in post anyway. 60i is native for HDV and has its good and bad qualities, if you are shooting to miniDV you will have the interlacing due to the format anyhow. If budget is part of the issue, I use a laptops when shooting and have Vegas capture (or another capture software that stays native) the video as well as recording to miniDV for the backup. This allows me avoid overuse on my equipment. I was able to buy older laptops on ebay with firewire ports, (since I have 5 cameras that I use for multicam shoots), and have saved money verses buying a hard drive capture unit that runs in the thousands per camera….hope this helps!
gotscottgreen
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Thank you for the suggestions I appreciate it very much and will continue to research the options. I’m leaning towards two cameras whereas one is better suited for sports. I’d rather have a higher frame rate to maintain the clarity on the slow replay. Any suggestions for the latter? Thanks again gentleman.
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I prefer Sony cameras and have a HVR-Z1U which I really like. The Sony PMW-EX1R XDCAM EX has variable frame rates which allow overcrank. So, you could step up the frame rates to record a golf swing to analyze in slow motion later.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Read the specs to the Sony John I didn’t see where it provided for over cranking. Unless perhaps you were referring to the 60p 720 mode… The jobs that I am getting these days are so varied that I need the versatility and as such doing requires me to sift through all the data. I appreciate all the help immensely.
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There is an option in the Menu called Camera Set | S&Q Motion that will allow you to select any frame rate from 1 to 60p at 720p. You can only undercrank at 1080 from 1 to 30p. Here is a video that shows you how to set it:
How to Under/Over Crank with the Sony PMW EX-1
This allows you to both over and under crank at 720p but it is variable. Also it shoots true 24p and not 24f wrapped in a 60i stream. Here is a web site that shows a good example of what can be achieved:
I don’t own this camera but there are lots of Vegas users on the Sony internal forums who do and love it.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks John I will look into it
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