3-perf film finish in FCP 5.0

[Mike J.]

Take a second look at the Cinema Tools manual.

35mm film is most commonly used for theatrical releases, with 4 perforations per frame
(4-perf) the most prevalent version. Another common version uses 3 perforations per
frame (3-perf). There are other versions of 35mm, such as 8-perf, but they are not
currently supported by Cinema Tools.

It does support 3 perf…

Maybe you have an old Cinema Tools.

Also, Cinema Tools forum for film at http://www.2-pop.com is far more active in Cinema Tools usage than here at the COW.

[Neil Sadwelkar]

If the telecine was done without flex/log files, then that will give you trouble no matter if you use FCP-CT or Avid FC.

In any case, if you’re doing DI and don’t expect to conform the neg at all, then you don’t even need keycodes, just TC and EDLs will do. I’ve managed frame accurate cut lists and EDLs for a full length feature shot in 35mm 3-perf, 4-perf, as well as 16mm. With FCP 5.0.4, and on an IMac. So have no fear. It all works.

Neil

FCP Editor, Mumbai, India.
Completely PAL.

[Steven Gonzales]

If you have burn in on your footage, you can use Cinema Tools without flex files. Basically, Cinema Tools keeps track of the video timecode to film edge code relationships.

You can capture your footage in final cut, and I would recommend logging by shot. Then you can export a batch list from Final Cut, and import that into Cinema Tools database to make a record for each shot. Then link each Cinema Tools record to that shot’s quicktime file. Then open each quicktime in Cinema Tools and read the keycodes from the burnin, check the timecode from the burn in, and add the keycode information to the record.

If you don’t have any burn in at all, you could try to get the keycode from the lab of each punch frame, and find that punch frame’s timecode, and do the record keeping by camera roll.

It’s not difficult if you understand the basic relationship: Final Cut know which quicktime file you used in your edit. A Cinema Tools data record within a database is linked to that same quicktime file. When you go to make a cutlist, Final Cut says to Cinema Tools: “this is the quicktime used at this location in the edit, and here’s the frames within that quicktime file that were used”. Cinema Tools says “I’m connected to that same quicktime, and for those frames that you used, here’s what the keycodes are.”

[Lara Johnston]

Hi Steve: Thanks for the post, that is a workflow that makes sense to me. However, I read in the Cinema Tools manual that it doesn’t support 3-perf. I also know from working on Avid Film Composer that 3-perf is a bit of a different beast. Key Code #’s also include perf information that I would always receive as a separate column of information in my flex file. I have to do a bit more research to see how close typing in my key# burnin will get me. Since we’re doing a DI, some eye-matching will be possible, although since it’s low-budget, I’m sure no one will want to spend time doing this.

I also didn’t realize there was a separate forum for cinema tools, I will do some research over there….

Lara Johnston

[Steven Gonzales]

I think you’re right about 3 perf and Cinema Tools. Perhaps you want to try an Avid DV Express Pro with the filmmaker’s option. Avid’s program, Filmscribe, I believe does allow 3 perf tracking.

Of course, I’m not sure how the lack of a FLEX file will affect this, but here’s a link for the film scribe user’s manual (not sure if this is current, as the copyright says 2001):

https://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=&productID=0&contentID=5067

[Arnie Schlissel]

[LJohnston] ” However, I read in the Cinema Tools manual that it doesn’t support 3-perf. “

From page 18 of the manual for Cinema Tools v 3.1.2: “Cinema Tools supports 4-perf 35mm, 3-perf 35mm, and 16mm-20 film formats.”

Perhaps you’re not using a current version of CT?

Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog

[Steven Gonzales]

That’s great news about 3 perf.

I’m awaiting my cross grade, but when I downloaded the update descriptions, and the user’s manual from https://www.apple.com/support/cinematools/ there was no mention of the 3 perf capability.

More proof that this forum is more up to date than Apple’s info.

[Paul Urubian]

Sure looks like cinema tools 3.1.2 supports 3 perf, but there doesn’t seem to be any mention of it in the release notes. But 3 perf is definitley an option in the database setup and for clips. I’ve cut a number of 3 perf projects on Avid, but not yet on FCP. So I took a dailes tape and flex file from my Avid show and digitized into my FCP system. CT recognized the 3 perf and did a perfect reverse telecine. I haven’t generated a neg list, but I can’t see why that would be a problem. But what’s the deal with no telecine logs or files?! I don’t see how you’ll ever get it to work without this. The 3 perf designation is not a seperate column, it’s appended to the frame number and usually seperated by a dot, so the 3rd perf of the 10th frame would look like “10.3” This is vital for reverse telecine to work. What are you gonna be doing, hand entering all your key numbers?

[Lara Johnston]

Yup. I guess hand-entering the key # from the burn-in is my only option. I’m just not sure how the extra perf designation will factor in….how close I will get to the right frame with my cut lists, orwhether I can figure the right perf out by trial-and-error, or if we will just have to do a lot of eye-matching in the DI suite. Any idea?

I sent specs to the telecine house, including what info I needed in the logs, and the tapes came back without flex files. The transfer was a favor for the DP so he could work with his colorist. So as usual, post gets shafted….we’ll see what he says when he doesn’t have anytime to time the movie because we have to spend so much time conforming to get the right frame.

[Paul Urubian]

Check with the telecine house, and the colorist in particular. I find it impossible to believe they didn’t generate any files or printouts. Maybe the files just didn’t get delivered with your tapes, that’s happened to me. Without it, you’re seriously screwed. You’ll have a 1 in 3 chance every time you digitze of getting it right, so that’s gonna take some time. You’ve got no record of the pulldown cadence, so more trial and error to get a proper reverse telecine. Also, the potential for error when hand entering the key numbers is enormous. And you’ve got no way to double check the colorist’s work. Somenone who would forget to make a flex file is likely to have made other mistakes, such as allowing the key numbers from one camera roll to continue into the next roll. This is a not uncommon problem with lazy telecine operators. DI time is really expensive, and eye matching at that point is gonna be very time consuming.