24p workflow and digital intermediate

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dave LaRonde] “The difference in motion between 24fps film and 25p would be imperceptable.”

Maybe, but audio is a more major concern.

Ben, what are you trying to do? I know you are sick of reading about pulldowns, but that’s life in the fast lane. There are all kinds of 24p and ways to extract 24p and get to 24p. What are you coming from and where are you going to?

[Arnie Schlissel]

[ben scott] “was wondering where people find as best resource for 24p workflow on the web or at creativecow”

The most absolute best source is the lab that’s doing your DI & making your negative. Anyone else’s advice is irrelevant.

Every lab mixes their own chemistry from scratch, and has their own… umm… unique? idyosyncratic? wierd? combination of equipment & workflow. What may work like butter in one lab may be like trying to skate on molten lava in another.

Choose your lab in preproduction. They’ve done this before. Consult with them. Stay with them.

Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog

[Ben Scott]

what you are saying about lab makes complete sense, its just like each device (profiles) in a scanning process for stills and negative stocks (i am more familiar with this sort of setup)

I have been asked to explain some of this to others and need to know enough to point people in the right direction. I am not currently involved in a specific project myself

from what I am thinking it is difficult to work with any sort of digital intermediate without having a larger bit depth 4.4.4 image would this be correct? also frames based DPX style files are the norm for a lot of onlining?

think what I am trying to find out are many of the HD video formats (HDV, XDCAM EX, DVC PRO HD, RED raw camera files) any good for digital intermediate work, is it simply a case of calibrated monitors and lookup tables throughout production and post or does it get much more complex? if so how. and where is a good place to start researching?

also realise this is a massive subject and so I am trying to see some sort of workflow in final cut pro. I presume it is cinema tools based and offline online based.

[Steven Gonzales]

How will you start, and how will you finish?

The original use of the term digital intermediate was to shoot on film, scan that negative instead of cutting the negative, and put that digital image out to finish on film.

If you’re shooting digital, then the “intermediate” is a redundant term, because you’re digital already. If you’re digital projecting, then you stay digital and there’s no intermediate at all.

The advice to ask your lab is the best. To that I add: take your finished product, and work backwards to figure how you’ll get there.

Most people that have problems start a project with no idea how they will end it. Then they end up with PAL to NTSC conversion, out of sync sound, or a myriad of other problems.

[Arnie Schlissel]

[ben scott] “what you are saying about lab makes complete sense, its just like each device (profiles) in a scanning process for stills and negative stocks (i am more familiar with this sort of setup)

I have been asked to explain some of this to others and need to know enough to point people in the right direction. I am not currently involved in a specific project myself”

I don’t know where you’re located, but if you can arrange for a tour of each lab in question, that would really sell the point that each one is different. And whichever lab has the newest, biggest, most expensive toy will be very happy to show it off!

[ben scott] “from what I am thinking it is difficult to work with any sort of digital intermediate without having a larger bit depth 4.4.4 image would this be correct? also frames based DPX style files are the norm for a lot of onlining?”

Some labs will insist on your delivering a TIFF or DPX sequence, some will accept QT files, some will offer to do the conform for you. Having them do the conform will seem like an expensive proposition, but they have the advantage of a Teranex or Alchemist box to run all of your footage through to adapt it to whatever format they’re doing the DI from.

[ben scott] “is it simply a case of calibrated monitors and lookup tables throughout production and post or does it get much more complex?”

The calibrated monitors, the LUTs, and, most importantly, the eye of the colorist. When a colorists spends several years working in the same lab on the same system, they gain an instinctive understanding of the difference between what they see on their display, & what they’ll see in the answer print.

[ben scott] “what I am trying to find out are many of the HD video formats (HDV, XDCAM EX, DVC PRO HD, RED raw camera files) any good for digital intermediate work”

At this point, all of these formats have been transfered to film, even if only for the purposes of testing.

Again, contact all of the labs in question, & find out if they can screen some test footage for you. Combine this with the tour. sounds like a fun day, I’d love to tag along!

Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog

[David Roth weiss]

[Steven Gonzales] “take your finished product, and work backwards to figure how you’ll get there.”

Steven,

That’s the way to do it.

Like me, you must have been good at those “connect the dots” things in nursery school too…

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

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